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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Stopping two cars
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:03 pm 
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I was on my way to work on a divided four lane highway. I was in the right hand lane following the flow of traffic. There was a slower car ahead of me and I wanted to change lanes and maintain my speed. When I looked in my left side mirror, I notice a red car going pretty fast in the passing lane, so I slowed down and waited. Once the speeder had passed my car the passing lane was clear. I changed lanes, accelerated a bit, and started to overtake the slower car. I was just about to go back in the right hand lane when the speeder (still in the passing lane) put on its brakes, so I put on my brakes. The speeder put on its brakes again, so I put on my brakes again. At that point I figured there must be an accident or something, but I couldn’t see anything in front of me, except a speeder trying to slow down. For a split second, I was thinking of going back in the right hand lane, but after putting on the brakes twice, I had lost track to the slower car in the right hand lane. So, I stayed in the passing lane behind the speeder and we both went slower and slower. We were crawling along in the passing lane when I noticed a police cruiser parked on the left. I figured the officer nabbed the speeder, and I was going to go along my marry way. The speeder stopped on the left side of the road and then the officer signalled me to stop as well, so I did. He claimed he clocked me doing 127 kph in a 100 zone. I’m pretty sure he had the speeder clocked at 130 kph, and I’m sure I wasn’t going that fast. Could the officer have made a mistake, given the speeder was in front of me from the point I changed lanes?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:30 pm 
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If the cop was using lidar (laser) then he could get the speed of both vehicles individually. It also means he has to take his eyes off one vehicle to target the other vehicle. If it's radar then he couldn't get the speed of both vehicles.

If the first vehicle is a Yukon and you're in a smart car, it would be pretty hard to see you. If it's the other way around, it would be easy to observe both vehicles.

Request disclosure. It will tell you what he saw, what he did and what he used.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:04 am 
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Hi ticketcombat:

Is that your site? Lots of useful info.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:37 am 
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Disclosure it is. I really doubt that the officer could reliably get your speed with the other car in front of you. If the officer was using lidar then he could have sampled the speed of the passing car twice, once before he hit the brakes and once while he was slowing, and attributed it to you. Disclosure is a must. The disclosure should list the distance of the measurement...this will come into play later..... as well as the make and model of the unit. Ask for the officers notes as far back as the beginning of his/her shift, that is when they do their alignment test. If your speeder boy is lucky, and in court the same day as you, you can call each other as witnesses.....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:51 pm 
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Yes it is my site and thanks for the positive feedback.

I would even go further than reflection's suggestions. In the disclosure request I would ask for the contact information of the "witness" which is the driver of the other vehicle. Why leave it up to chance that you'll bump into him in court? Most people pay the fine. Better still, they probably won't give you the info which means you can argue improper disclosure and stay the charge.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:37 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
Disclosure it is. I really doubt that the officer could reliably get your speed with the other car in front of you.


Absolutely, very easy to do obtain all speeds on all 3 vehicles.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:38 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
Ask for the officers notes as far back as the beginning of his/her shift, that is when they do their alignment test.


FYI, we do not give complete notes for our whole shift. Only applicable notes for the incident in question

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:06 pm 
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I’m certain many officers have no problems placing crosshairs of a laser on any car in traffic, but the light beam coming out of a laser is not a small dot. Most lasers have a beam that diverges at a rate of about 30cm/100m. That means your dot is really a 30cm circle at 100m. Go to 300m and the circle grows to 90cm, or about 3 feet. Any car going inside that 3 foot circle can interfere with readings on the intended target.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:23 am 
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You ticket was required to be issued in both French and English by the cop because the demerit points are a provincial matter. The province has guaranteed you services and procedures will be provided in both languages even if you don't speak both languages. It's not an option.

My advice is that you do not respond to the ticket at all and file an appeal within 15 days of receiving the conviction notice. You will then argue that the ticket was defective on its face for not being in both languages and the Justice was required by law to quash the proceeding.

If you bring this information forward now, or request a trail to explain it, the court can fix it and you will be found guilty and a fine and points will be imposed, along with possibly higher insurance rates.

The only way to prevent the court from fixing a ticket with errors is to not respond to it at all.

The Provincial Offences Act articulates that laying a charge is a procedure under Part I and III.

The French Language Services Act guarantees you that all services and procedures will be provided in both French and English.

Provincial Offences Act

Certificate of offence and offence notice

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... _e.htm#BK4

3. (1) In addition to the procedure set out in Part III for commencing a proceeding by laying an information, a proceeding in respect of an offence may be commenced by filing a certificate of offence alleging the offence in the office of the court.


Commencement of proceeding by information

21. (1) In addition to the procedure set out in Parts I and II for commencing a proceeding by the filing of a certificate, a proceeding in respect of an offence may be commenced by laying an information.


French Language Services Act

Definitions

1. In this Act,

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... 0f32_e.htm

“service” means any service or procedure that is provided to the public by a government agency or institution of the Legislature and includes all communications for the purpose.

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Last edited by lawmen on Tue Nov 18, 2008 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:16 am 
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Imax wrote:
Any car going inside that 3 foot circle can interfere with readings on the intended target.

The only thing that would happen is NO reading at all if two targets were to happen to get in the beam.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Quote:
FYI, we do not give complete notes for our whole shift. Only applicable notes for the incident in question


Your alignment check is part of the incident



Quote:
Absolutely, very easy to do obtain all speeds on all 3 vehicles.


Depends on vehicle gapping and your distance to target. 400 meters to target = 1.2 meter (4 feet) diameter beam, plus any angle to the road also increases the diameter. If you can accurately site 3 vehicles front licence plates at that distance, I'll personally deliver you a Boston Cream and Cafe Mocha. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:47 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
. If you can accurately site 3 vehicles front licence plates at that distance, I'll personally deliver you a Boston Cream and Cafe Mocha. :D


Better start driving then :wink:

ps...I don't want a day old either...I am a professional donut taster and know the difference!!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:48 pm 
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I'm sure this belongs in traffic jokes but here goes:

Officer: Mr Reflections, where are we going in such a hurry?
Me: I lost this stupid bet with a cop and I have to get him his prize.
Officer: And why do you need to drive so fast??
Me: He's a professional and demands results.
Officer: Results??
Me: This donut and Tims are fresh........Where did they go???
Officer: Wherrrrr'd whaaat go (gulp)?
Me: Officer, you have Boston Cream on your chin.
Officer: No I don't.
Me: Officer, I need to get another donut. Where's the closest Tim's??
Officer: Next exit, turn right. Tell Sally I say hi. You had better get two donuts.
Me: Why?
Officer: There's another officer just past that exit and he knows your coming.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:09 am 
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:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Hi Reflections:

That’s funny! But I wouldn’t drive to my nearest Tims if I were you, unless Hwybear has figured out a way to upgrade his laser with gamma rays or x-rays.

Image


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