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HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:00 am 
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In 2005, the government passed legislation that enabled the introduction of variable speed limits at some point in the future. It didn't take effect right away, so it sat waiting for "proclamation by the Lieutenant Governor." Just by chance... I was reading the HTA earlier while browsing this forum, and this section has now been added:

Quote:
Variable speed limits

128.0.1 (1) The Minister may designate any highway or portion of a highway where variable maximum rates of speed may be set in accordance with this section. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Same

(2) An official of the Ministry authorized by the Minister in writing may, from time to time, set a maximum rate of speed for a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1) or for each lane, direction of travel or class or type of motor vehicle on a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1). 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Speed limits posted

(3) A maximum rate of speed set under subsection (2) shall be posted by means of signs prescribed by the regulations and is not effective unless it is so posted. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Where no speed limit posted

(4) Where no maximum rate of speed is posted under this section, the maximum rate of speed for the highway or portion of the highway or for the lane, direction of travel or class or type of motor vehicle shall be the maximum rate of speed that would otherwise apply under section 128. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Records

(5) The Ministry official shall keep a record of every maximum rate of speed set and posted under subsections (2) and (3), together with the highway or portion of the highway or lane, direction of travel and class or type of motor vehicle to which it applies, the dates and times for which it is applicable and the dates and times when it was set and posted. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Regulations

(6) The Minister may make regulations,

(a) designating highways or portions of highways for the purpose of subsection (1);

(b) prescribing the kinds of signs that may be used for the purposes of this section and prescribing the wording or messages that may be displayed on them. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.


Variable speed limits are used in many other places and make a lot of sense. As I said, the government passed the law in 2005, but it was not officially put into the HTA until recently, so it seems like the government has decided to make it law now... Either that or I'm missing something. Maybe they're going to trial variable speed limits in the next year??

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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:56 pm 
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I would respectfully disagree,

this was brought in to the UK (when I was there) about 5-6 years ago and is a pile of junk.
on the M25, on certain stretches, they have a variable speed limit. usually on the motorway it's 70mph, (though most people conservatively do up to about 80) on busy days, they change it to say 50,

Now, given the area is fully marked that its a variable speed limit, and the overhead gantry shows a big 50, so you really can't miss it.

What makes that road anymore dangerous to do 50 rather than 70? When 5 minutes previously it was safe to do 70MPH, but doing so afterwards, you'll cop a 20+ over the speed limit !
( Because we are all led to believe that the reason is to make the road safer ?)

Anyone traversing the m25 in rush hour, knows full well you CANT do 50 anyway. And these limits come into play at thoes times.
and at THOES times the area becomes gridlocked.

This is a pure CASH COW, and additional tax and has NOTHING to do with safety at all.

Bear in mind also that the speed limit's in Canada are actually SLOWER than in the UK.

I'm all for safety, running red lights, bad driving, tailgating, road racing, aggressive driving, impaired driving.
But this is not the reason for a variable speed limit.

If Canadian's let this go ahead (which they more than likly will do) it;s gonna be the beginning of the end

just MHO



Radar Identified wrote:
Variable speed limits are used in many other places and make a lot of sense. As I said, the government passed the law in 2005, but it was not officially put into the HTA until recently, so it seems like the government has decided to make it law now... Either that or I'm missing something. Maybe they're going to trial variable speed limits in the next year??

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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:02 pm 
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bobajob wrote:
this was brought in to the UK (when I was there) about 5-6 years ago and is a pile of junk.
on the M25, on certain stretches, they have a variable speed limit. usually on the motorway it's 70mph, (though most people conservatively do up to about 80) on busy days, they change it to say 50


That may have been the case in the UK however in Germany and Switzerland (where I've spent a great deal of time) it works really well. They use it to slow people down before they start running in to heavy congestion, or when it is raining/snowing/etc.

bobajob wrote:
This is a pure CASH COW, and additional tax and has NOTHING to do with safety at all.


That could be the case. It remains to be seen how Ontario will handle this. However, Germany absolutely has used it as a safety tool.

bobajob wrote:
Bear in mind also that the speed limit's in Canada are actually SLOWER than in the UK.


Actually most of the provinces have a speed limit of 110 km/h, which although it is slightly less than the 70 MPH UK limit on most motorways, it is almost the same (68 MPH). British Columbia just raised its limits to 120 km/h, which is faster than the limits in the UK. Ontario and Quebec are the exception and not the rule. Yes I am aware that the UK has talked about raising their limits to 80 MPH but for the time being the limit in most of Canada is almost identical and in the case of BC it is faster.

bobajob wrote:
If Canadian's let this go ahead (which they more than likly will do) it;s gonna be the beginning of the end


"Beginning of the end" seems a bit of an overly dramatic statement. But, I'll agree with you that *if* implemented improperly, it could be very bad. On a separate note, from your post, you weren't in Canada at the time, however the Ontario NDP government was brought down in large part due to its implementation of photo radar in the 1990s. Conversely, in the UK it is still used quite a bit. It was a plain and simple revenue tool and people said "enough."

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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:35 am 
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hey txs for your POV

Radar Identified wrote:
That may have been the case in the UK however in Germany and Switzerland (where I've spent a great deal of time) it works really well. They use it to slow people down before they start running in to heavy congestion, or when it is raining/snowing/etc.


and yes that was the argument when they introduced it into the UK, but it didn't work like that. as soon as you hit the m25 your where already in congestion and accident rates didnt change. Europe I have no driving experience of.


Radar Identified wrote:
Actually most of the provinces have a speed limit of 110 km/h, which although it is slightly less than the 70 MPH UK limit on most motorways, it is almost the same (68 MPH). British Columbia just raised its limits to 120 km/h, which is faster than the limits in the UK. Ontario and Quebec are the exception and not the rule. Yes I am aware that the UK has talked about raising their limits to 80 MPH but for the time being the limit in most of Canada is almost identical and in the case of BC it is faster.


110 is about 68, and no-one in the UK does 70, pretty much like no-one does 100 (62) here on the 400's; generally to keep with traffic flow, you need to be doing 110-120 (I've found anyway)
I had heard about changing speed limits, but wasn't aware of the speeds in other provinces

Radar Identified wrote:
"Beginning of the end" seems a bit of an overly dramatic statement. But, I'll agree with you that *if* implemented improperly, it could be very bad. On a separate note, from your post, you weren't in Canada at the time, however the Ontario NDP government was brought down in large part due to its implementation of photo radar in the 1990s. Conversely, in the UK it is still used quite a bit. It was a plain and simple revenue tool and people said "enough."


Yes I heard about that, and other than red light cameras,99% of the UK pop see the photo radar as a cash cow, and in fact increased accidents by people speeding up to the locations and slamming brakes, OR paying too much attention to the speed and not watching the road for fear of being copped, but KUDOS for saying enough !!!!

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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 11:21 am 
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The long and short of it is, we'll have to see how this one plays out. The provision is there now, it may be used or it may not. Quebec was going to test variable speed limits, which was actually a disguised way of raising them, because the upper limit in variable zones was supposed to be 120 km/h versus their current 100 km/h. They just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. Time will tell. There's pressure now in Alberta to raise the limit to 120 on parts of the Trans-Canada Highway (between Calgary and Banff National Park) and Highway 2 (the QEII) between Calgary and Edmonton. Manitoba may follow if there is success with the higher limits in BC.

bobajob wrote:
Yes I heard about that, and other than red light cameras,99% of the UK pop see the photo radar as a cash cow, and in fact increased accidents by people speeding up to the locations and slamming brakes, OR paying too much attention to the speed and not watching the road for fear of being copped, but KUDOS for saying enough !!!!


Yeah, Ontario had a similar experience. Although the overall collision rate allegedly dropped during the time photo radar was used in Ontario, that was on a province-wide basis only. (It had been trending downwards before it was introduced, and continued to trend downward after it was discontinued.) On the roads where it was used, the death rate went up by 44% - due to people speeding up and then slamming on the brakes.

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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:46 pm 
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txs RI,
I'm liking this version of it better, i.e. the "upper speed limit" is the 120, as opposed to in the UK< where the already 70 was the upper limit

coolski !

Radar Identified wrote:
The long and short of it is, we'll have to see how this one plays out. The provision is there now, it may be used or it may not. Quebec was going to test variable speed limits, which was actually a disguised way of raising them, because the upper limit in variable zones was supposed to be 120 km/h versus their current 100 km/h. They just haven't pulled the trigger on it yet. Time will tell. There's pressure now in Alberta to raise the limit to 120 on parts of the Trans-Canada Highway (between Calgary and Banff National Park) and Highway 2 (the QEII) between Calgary and Edmonton. Manitoba may follow if there is success with the higher limits in BC.

bobajob wrote:
Yes I heard about that, and other than red light cameras,99% of the UK pop see the photo radar as a cash cow, and in fact increased accidents by people speeding up to the locations and slamming brakes, OR paying too much attention to the speed and not watching the road for fear of being copped, but KUDOS for saying enough !!!!


Yeah, Ontario had a similar experience. Although the overall collision rate allegedly dropped during the time photo radar was used in Ontario, that was on a province-wide basis only. (It had been trending downwards before it was introduced, and continued to trend downward after it was discontinued.) On the roads where it was used, the death rate went up by 44% - due to people speeding up and then slamming on the brakes.

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* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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Re: HTA provision for variable speed limits is active...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:19 pm 
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bobajob wrote:
I'm liking this version of it better, i.e. the "upper speed limit" is the 120, as opposed to in the UK< where the already 70 was the upper limit


Ah ok, that would explain a fair bit.

To be fair, I don't know if Ontario will follow Quebec's proposal, although if Quebec does go ahead and it is successful, along with BC's higher limits and some other provinces facing pressure to raise theirs, it will become harder for them to resist change. They could not do anything, but sooner or later...

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