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High-speed crash on Allen - your opinions, news.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:12 am 
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http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32699.aspx reports:

Police are pointing to speed as a major factor in a fatal crash on Allen Road Saturday morning.

Crews got the call just before 5am when a TTC driver noticed debris strewn across the southbound lanes near Sheppard, though that's not where the accident actually started.

Investigators say the driver of a blue Volvo was heading north when he lost control of his vehicle, crossing the southbound lanes, barrelling through Transit Road on the west side and rolling up an embankment.

"The amount of distance that vehicle covered, the way [it] rolled and where it ended up...there was considerable speed involved," noted Sgt. Tim Burrows of the Toronto Police.

A 23-year-old male was pronounced at the scene. His next-of-kin has requested that his name not be released.

Traffic Services closed the Allen northbound at Wilson Heights and southbound at Sheppard for a few hours while they put together a reconstruction.


Do you think that more than simple speed was involved in the crash?

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Re: High-speed crash on Allen - your opinions, news.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:11 am 
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racer wrote:
Do you think that more than simple speed was involved in the crash?


Lack of driver skill and/or mechanical failure. It could also be argued that a lack of driver skill resulted in a speed too fast for the road.

It seems to me like it would take a huge amount of momentum to cross oncoming lanes and then roll up an embankment, leaving a trail of debris.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Lack of driver skill and/or mechanical failure. It could also be argued that a lack of driver skill resulted in a speed too fast for the road.


Plus a wobbly pop or two.... drinking first then speed????

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:59 pm 
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DUI is what I was thinking. But the cops will likely attribute it to speed, not take the blood sample, and try to spin it to support the 172 charade. My point - if there is no blood test, don't even mention it in defence of stunt/racing legislations. Newspapers are great at spreading information and misinformation, even if meant well.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:22 pm 
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This guy really covered a lot of mileage. Either he was so drunk he didn't realize that he was going off the road, or he must've been going well over 200 km/h. Or both.

Allen Road where the crash occurred is separated by an extremely wide, hilly median, so it would've taken a lot of speed to go across it without stopping, not to mention crossing the four oncoming lanes of Allen Road. Then, he had to go across another fairly wide grass strip, go across Transit Boulevard (two lanes wide there), go up a steep hill and smash into a tree with enough force to kill him, in a Volvo. Maybe he wasn't wearing his seat belt, but even if that's the case, he still covered at least 300 metres during the whole event and totalled the car on impact with the tree.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:30 pm 
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We can't rule out a medical condition, either. Maybe he had a seizure or passed out with his foot on the gas.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:01 pm 
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If I read this correctly it is a single vehicle, with one driver, no passengers. Police will not do a blood test. It will be up to the coroner IF an autopsy is done, if that happens the coroner checks for anything medical, which includes alcohol, drugs, pre-existing health conditions etc.. and then determines cause of death

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:00 pm 
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So, if the coroner determines that the crash had been the cause of death, then there will be no further testing, as to find out what had caused the crash?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:21 pm 
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As for the one on allen.

I think speed limits are a bit to high or right in the city.

In the city you have traffic lights, pedestrians, buses, people darting out infront, stop signs, cars going all which ways.

Speeding in the city is really stupid.

Infact i think downtown 50 or 60 is fast. There is so many things to pay attention to. This guy could have encountered something at the last second and had to slow down.

While i think speed is a big deal on city streets i think its a different story on the 401 at 3 am with no one else on the road.

I find it quite fast and challenging to drive 60 on downtown city streets.

I watched the video it was not clear what happened on the gardner.

As to that is the Gardner OPP territory or TPS territory?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:48 pm 
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At the point where the crash occurred, Allen is a controlled-access multi-lane divided highway, speed limit 80 km/h. A little ways north of there it starts to become a regular surface street.

The Gardiner Expressway, like the Don Valley Parkway, is patrolled by the Toronto Police.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:33 pm 
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racer wrote:
So, if the coroner determines that the crash had been the cause of death, then there will be no further testing, as to find out what had caused the crash?


No, the coroner will have a complete report. (previous medical conditions, previous medical treatments (ie surgeries), any intoxicants in body, current medication and the cause of the death)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Here's what I think happened:
The Volvo was pegged to the speed limit (as all Volvo's are). A grumpy old redneck was about to go by him in the other lane, when, because the Volvo guy was very tired, he wandered over into the other guys lane just a bit. This infuriated the pickup driver and he decide to ride just inches off his bumper to teach him some kind of lesson. The Volvo guy decided to "matt it" and put some distance on the huge truck. But the truck driver floored it too. The Volvo guy knew there was a turn ahead and wanted to slow, but the other driver was right behind him. Just then, a stray dog jumped off the curb and startled the Volvo driver just enough to make him twitch the wheel. He started to lose it, and, lacking experience with high speed maneuvers, clipped the curb and tumbled out of control. The pickup driver got the heck out of there and the dog continued on his way...

Either that, or the driver fell asleep with his foot now heavy on the gas...

My point? When KNOW ONE KNOWS, why must the police issue the "speed was a factor" statement all the time?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:33 pm 
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Even in your scenario, speed was a factor. Not necessarily the factor, but still a factor. (The factor, arguably, would be a sudden lack of speed)

Besides, people who speed up from being tailgated have a poor understanding of physics. Even a big honkin' pickup can't push you using air. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Of course Speed was a factor. But the simplistic way it is reported by the police leaves folks nodding and mumbling under their breath, "Darn speeders". And then it will get added to the police statistics as a speed-related wreck which will then result in heavier fines and crazy new legislation.

My scenarios above are only two of thousands of possibilities.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:21 pm 
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Bookm wrote:
Here's what I think happened:
The Volvo was pegged to the speed limit (as all Volvo's are). A grumpy old redneck was about to go by him in the other lane, when, because the Volvo guy was very tired, he wandered over into the other guys lane just a bit. This infuriated the pickup driver and he decide to ride just inches off his bumper to teach him some kind of lesson. The Volvo guy decided to "matt it" and put some distance on the huge truck. But the truck driver floored it too. The Volvo guy knew there was a turn ahead and wanted to slow, but the other driver was right behind him. Just then, a stray dog jumped off the curb and startled the Volvo driver just enough to make him twitch the wheel. He started to lose it, and, lacking experience with high speed maneuvers, clipped the curb and tumbled out of control. The pickup driver got the heck out of there and the dog continued on his way...


Keep that up and you will be on AMW replacing John Walsh.....or on the "Jerry Springer Show" telling the world how your "hand modeling" has broken up the next door neighbours wife's brother's son's aunt as she is now cheating on her husband with the neighbour :wink: :lol: :lol:

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