Got two very heavy tickets -- for failing to stop for a school bus, and for using a handheld device. Was running late in a morning rush traffic in Toronto and apparently passed a school bus on the opposite side w/o noticing its signal. A few meters after that I stopped behind the other cars waiting at the traffic light. While waiting for the green signal, I pulled up the phone which has been sitting in the cup holder on the console to the right of the driver's seat. The phone was showing the TTC bus arrival time for a stop nearby, where I was going to drop off a passenger; I was not texting or talking. It went blank (screen saver) and I pulled it up while standing at the red signal to refresh the screen. At that moment a police officer walked to the front passenger window and directed me to pull over. As he saw the phone in my hand (or touching it, I can't really remember), he gave me tickets for two offences. He did ask to see the phone, and I explained what it was used for, and that it was in the cupholder, up until the time I stopped at the light (at which time he approached the car and saw me with it). He also mentioned (not sure why, and only at the very end) that our communication (or perhaps the whole infraction, I am not sure) was recorded and filmed. To make the matter worse, the car insurance slip was left home, but was sent to me quickly on the phone. He reprimanded me for not carrying the insurance, but was satisfied with the electronic copy. I am trying to decide whether I should go for an early resolution option, of for the trial. Have a few questions in this regard: 1) Given the nature of the offences, each of which is ticketed at $490, what are my chances of receiving a lower fine (and/or demerit points) should I go for the early resolution option? Does anyone have experience with a similar situation? 2) What are the disadvantages of going for a trial? Is it possible that a judge can impose even heavier penalty than is currently stated in the two tickets? Would there be much benefit for opting for a trial, or seeing the disclosure materials? Thank you, would appreciate any feedback.
Got two very heavy tickets -- for failing to stop for a school bus, and for using a handheld device. Was running late in a morning rush traffic in Toronto and apparently passed a school bus on the opposite side w/o noticing its signal. A few meters after that I stopped behind the other cars waiting at the traffic light. While waiting for the green signal, I pulled up the phone which has been sitting in the cup holder on the console to the right of the driver's seat. The phone was showing the TTC bus arrival time for a stop nearby, where I was going to drop off a passenger; I was not texting or talking. It went blank (screen saver) and I pulled it up while standing at the red signal to refresh the screen. At that moment a police officer walked to the front passenger window and directed me to pull over. As he saw the phone in my hand (or touching it, I can't really remember), he gave me tickets for two offences. He did ask to see the phone, and I explained what it was used for, and that it was in the cupholder, up until the time I stopped at the light (at which time he approached the car and saw me with it). He also mentioned (not sure why, and only at the very end) that our communication (or perhaps the whole infraction, I am not sure) was recorded and filmed. To make the matter worse, the car insurance slip was left home, but was sent to me quickly on the phone. He reprimanded me for not carrying the insurance, but was satisfied with the electronic copy.
I am trying to decide whether I should go for an early resolution option, of for the trial. Have a few questions in this regard:
1) Given the nature of the offences, each of which is ticketed at $490, what are my chances of receiving a lower fine (and/or demerit points) should I go for the early resolution option? Does anyone have experience with a similar situation?
2) What are the disadvantages of going for a trial? Is it possible that a judge can impose even heavier penalty than is currently stated in the two tickets? Would there be much benefit for opting for a trial, or seeing the disclosure materials?
These are not hard offences to prove assuming it was the police officer that saw you pass the bus. You may want to try to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped. There is always benefit in seeing the disclosure though to see what evidence there is.
These are not hard offences to prove assuming it was the police officer that saw you pass the bus. You may want to try to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped.
There is always benefit in seeing the disclosure though to see what evidence there is.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Early resolution is most likely a waste of time as you can just meet with prosecutor before trial to discuss plea deals options. But most likely they wont offer much of anything in the way of plea deals in this case. Any ways you should plead NOT GUILTY to both and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial then you can ask for disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get the notes, scan and post here (with personal/officer info blacked out) and then we can determine if they are beatable or not. Worst case is you go to trial and you lose but you request a reduction in fines from the Justice of the Peace. Seeing as you were stopped when you used the phone, you MIGHT get a reduction on that one.
Early resolution is most likely a waste of time as you can just meet with prosecutor before trial to discuss plea deals options. But most likely they wont offer much of anything in the way of plea deals in this case.
Any ways you should plead NOT GUILTY to both and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial then you can ask for disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get the notes, scan and post here (with personal/officer info blacked out) and then we can determine if they are beatable or not.
Worst case is you go to trial and you lose but you request a reduction in fines from the Justice of the Peace. Seeing as you were stopped when you used the phone, you MIGHT get a reduction on that one.
If you read this board you will see differing opinions on Early Resolution. I think it's a good idea and that you are likely to get a better deal before the Crown has spent time working on the case and getting it ready for trial, calling witnesses etc. Once trial day arrives he or she is ready for trial so may have less incentive to cut you a break......unless they have an early tee time of course.
If you read this board you will see differing opinions on Early Resolution. I think it's a good idea and that you are likely to get a better deal before the Crown has spent time working on the case and getting it ready for trial, calling witnesses etc. Once trial day arrives he or she is ready for trial so may have less incentive to cut you a break......unless they have an early tee time of course.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Thank you both for the advice, really appreciate it. With respect to trying to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped, or somehow reduced, when could that be done? Does that need to happen at the Early Resolution meeting? Or is that something that could be done at the trial (how does it work then, e.g. before the trial?). When is it more likely to succeed, if at all? I guess the only way for me to see the evidence (i.e. to ask for disclosure) is to request a trial, is this correct? I am trying to evaluate my chances with early resolution versus trial. If possible, I have a few questions of the Early Resolution option: How long does is typically take to set up one in Toronto? (My tickets refer to the East court office on Markham St, if that matters) What could I try to ask for during the meeting? Would the best case be trying to drop the phone offence? Or asking to plead guilty to a lesser offence on either of the two tickets? What are lesser offences for 175(11) (school bus), and for 78.1(1) (handheld device)? Any chance of switching to the owner offence on the school bus versus the driver (it's probably almost impossible, since I was stopped by the officer, but worth a shot?) If they do not offer anything of substance, should I then request a trial? Are there disadvantages of going for a trial after an unsuccessful Early Resolution meeting -- from the point of likely outcome at the trial, that is? In particularly, it it possible or likely that the judge will impose a still higher fines and or demerit points? I am guessing the demerit points are set, so probably could not go higher? But what about fines, or other penalties they can impose? Regarding the trial option -- if it it comes to that, I would certainly ask for disclosure. I am not totally convinced the bus lights were flashing, but even if that is not stated in the officer's note, he did mention video recording, which makes me think there is likely video log of the offence and he is pretty confident of the evidence. What would you make of the officer's remark that it was recorded? Many thanks!
argyll wrote:
If you read this board you will see differing opinions on Early Resolution. I think it's a good idea and that you are likely to get a better deal before the Crown has spent time working on the case and getting it ready for trial, calling witnesses etc. Once trial day arrives he or she is ready for trial so may have less incentive to cut you a break......unless they have an early tee time of course.
Thank you both for the advice, really appreciate it. With respect to trying to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped, or somehow reduced, when could that be done? Does that need to happen at the Early Resolution meeting? Or is that something that could be done at the trial (how does it work then, e.g. before the trial?). When is it more likely to succeed, if at all?
I guess the only way for me to see the evidence (i.e. to ask for disclosure) is to request a trial, is this correct?
I am trying to evaluate my chances with early resolution versus trial. If possible, I have a few questions of the Early Resolution option:
How long does is typically take to set up one in Toronto? (My tickets refer to the East court office on Markham St, if that matters)
What could I try to ask for during the meeting? Would the best case be trying to drop the phone offence? Or asking to plead guilty to a lesser offence on either of the two tickets? What are lesser offences for 175(11) (school bus), and for 78.1(1) (handheld device)? Any chance of switching to the owner offence on the school bus versus the driver (it's probably almost impossible, since I was stopped by the officer, but worth a shot?)
If they do not offer anything of substance, should I then request a trial? Are there disadvantages of going for a trial after an unsuccessful Early Resolution meeting -- from the point of likely outcome at the trial, that is? In particularly, it it possible or likely that the judge will impose a still higher fines and or demerit points? I am guessing the demerit points are set, so probably could not go higher? But what about fines, or other penalties they can impose?
Regarding the trial option -- if it it comes to that, I would certainly ask for disclosure. I am not totally convinced the bus lights were flashing, but even if that is not stated in the officer's note, he did mention video recording, which makes me think there is likely video log of the offence and he is pretty confident of the evidence. What would you make of the officer's remark that it was recorded?
Thank you both for the advice, really appreciate it. With respect to trying to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped, or somehow reduced, when could that be done? Does that need to happen at the Early Resolution meeting? Or is that something that could be done at the trial (how does it work then, e.g. before the trial?). When is it more likely to succeed, if at all? I guess the only way for me to see the evidence (i.e. to ask for disclosure) is to request a trial, is this correct? I am trying to evaluate my chances with early resolution versus trial. If possible, I have a few questions of the Early Resolution option: How long does is typically take to set up one in Toronto? (My tickets refer to the East court office on Markham St, if that matters) What could I try to ask for during the meeting? Would the best case be trying to drop the phone offence? Or asking to plead guilty to a lesser offence on either of the two tickets? What are lesser offences for 175(11) (school bus), and for 78.1(1) (handheld device)? Any chance of switching to the owner offence on the school bus versus the driver (it's probably almost impossible, since I was stopped by the officer, but worth a shot?) If they do not offer anything of substance, should I then request a trial? Are there disadvantages of going for a trial after an unsuccessful Early Resolution meeting -- from the point of likely outcome at the trial, that is? In particularly, it it possible or likely that the judge will impose a still higher fines and or demerit points? I am guessing the demerit points are set, so probably could not go higher? But what about fines, or other penalties they can impose? Regarding the trial option -- if it it comes to that, I would certainly ask for disclosure. I am not totally convinced the bus lights were flashing, but even if that is not stated in the officer's note, he did mention video recording, which makes me think there is likely video log of the offence and he is pretty confident of the evidence. What would you make of the officer's remark that it was recorded? Many thanks! A disclosure request and seeing what evidence will be used against you is always a good idea . With regards to the video evidence it will depend on the location of the officers patrol vehicle as to whether or not the offence itself was caught on camera or if just the interaction between yourself and the officer is on camera. I know that 99% of Toronto scout cars are fitted with panasonic cameras to the front and one to the cage in the vehicle. Goodluck.
lremi wrote:
argyll wrote:
If you read this board you will see differing opinions on Early Resolution. I think it's a good idea and that you are likely to get a better deal before the Crown has spent time working on the case and getting it ready for trial, calling witnesses etc. Once trial day arrives he or she is ready for trial so may have less incentive to cut you a break......unless they have an early tee time of course.
Thank you both for the advice, really appreciate it. With respect to trying to plead to one in exchange for the other being dropped, or somehow reduced, when could that be done? Does that need to happen at the Early Resolution meeting? Or is that something that could be done at the trial (how does it work then, e.g. before the trial?). When is it more likely to succeed, if at all?
I guess the only way for me to see the evidence (i.e. to ask for disclosure) is to request a trial, is this correct?
I am trying to evaluate my chances with early resolution versus trial. If possible, I have a few questions of the Early Resolution option:
How long does is typically take to set up one in Toronto? (My tickets refer to the East court office on Markham St, if that matters)
What could I try to ask for during the meeting? Would the best case be trying to drop the phone offence? Or asking to plead guilty to a lesser offence on either of the two tickets? What are lesser offences for 175(11) (school bus), and for 78.1(1) (handheld device)? Any chance of switching to the owner offence on the school bus versus the driver (it's probably almost impossible, since I was stopped by the officer, but worth a shot?)
If they do not offer anything of substance, should I then request a trial? Are there disadvantages of going for a trial after an unsuccessful Early Resolution meeting -- from the point of likely outcome at the trial, that is? In particularly, it it possible or likely that the judge will impose a still higher fines and or demerit points? I am guessing the demerit points are set, so probably could not go higher? But what about fines, or other penalties they can impose?
Regarding the trial option -- if it it comes to that, I would certainly ask for disclosure. I am not totally convinced the bus lights were flashing, but even if that is not stated in the officer's note, he did mention video recording, which makes me think there is likely video log of the offence and he is pretty confident of the evidence. What would you make of the officer's remark that it was recorded?
Many thanks!
A disclosure request and seeing what evidence will be used against you is always a good idea .
With regards to the video evidence it will depend on the location of the officers patrol vehicle as to whether or not the offence itself was caught on camera or if just the interaction between yourself and the officer is on camera. I know that 99% of Toronto scout cars are fitted with panasonic cameras to the front and one to the cage in the vehicle.
Here is what I found on the MTO page on distracted driving (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety ... -faq.shtml), under Question 5. I understand 1 and 3, it's point 2 that concerns me. Has anyone seen this increase in the fine applied when a person chooses to fight the ticket and is convicted?
Here is what I found on the MTO page on distracted driving (http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/safety ... -faq.shtml), under Question 5. I understand 1 and 3, it's point 2 that concerns me. Has anyone seen this increase in the fine applied when a person chooses to fight the ticket and is convicted?
If convicted of distracted driving, a fully licenced driver (holder of Class A, B, C, D, E, F, G) or a hybrid driver (holder of a full-class licence and a novice licence such as Class G and M1) will receive:
a fine of $400, plus a victim surcharge and court fee, for a total of $490 if settled out of court
fine of up to $1,000 if you receive a summons or fight your ticket
three demerit points applied to your drivers record
Set fines are for those that wish to pay their fine and not dispute the ticket. Once you choose to go to trial, the set fines are out the window...Under section 78.1(6.1) -the penalty section: " every person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $300 and not more than $1,000"...the prosecutor can ask for any fine in that range, it would be up to the justice of the peace to impose whatever they feel is just in that particular case taking into consideration all of the facts and circumstances...
Set fines are for those that wish to pay their fine and not dispute the ticket. Once you choose to go to trial, the set fines are out the window...Under section 78.1(6.1) -the penalty section: " every person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $300 and not more than $1,000"...the prosecutor can ask for any fine in that range, it would be up to the justice of the peace to impose whatever they feel is just in that particular case taking into consideration all of the facts and circumstances...
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
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I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
