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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
Hello
if I have 18 years of experience in other post USSR country -
and I was stooped with G1 and my foreign Driving License -

I mean before this - I was drive on Ontario Road with my Foreign DL (first 60 days after arrival to Canada) -
Then I got G1 and stay in 2.5 months line for Driving Test - and this period I was stopped by cop. :(

should I expect Suspension on my Trial or I can avoid it some how? My trial in one week

PLEASE ADVICE and if any link to the regulation to have - I mean Punishing for G1 with unaccompanied full G.


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 667
Upon conviction for driving without a G driver with four years experience, your G1 licence will be suspended for 30 days, plus the fine.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... .8.1.shtml


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:00 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
Hello
Thank you for your reply!

I have few questions

1) since I got the ticket to the court passed 7 months!
And I got G2 now - will this G2 be suspended?

2) For the moment of I was stopped - I was drive with G1 - and I have had and show my foreign driving Licence.
ALSO I GOT DRIVING length of driving experience IN MY OFFICIAL ONTARIO DRIVING HISTORY since 1999 !
Can is save me some how?

3) And - What can I use on the court to avoid - Suspension! (as I know each time when I try to get the insurance I will be forced to reply - IF I GOT DRIVING LICENSE SUSPENSION EVER! - and if I reply - YES - it will affect my Insurance rate. )
I forced to present my self on the court by my self cause - I not even have job yet - so I cant spend extra cad .

I would be appreciated for recommendation - what is the best way to act to avoid the Suspension of my Driving Licence?

Thank you !


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1045
bzmw wrote:
1) since I got the ticket to the court passed 7 months!
And I got G2 now - will this G2 be suspended?


Yes, your license will still be suspended.

bzmw wrote:
2) For the moment of I was stopped - I was drive with G1 - and I have had and show my foreign driving Licence.
ALSO I GOT DRIVING length of driving experience IN MY OFFICIAL ONTARIO DRIVING HISTORY since 1999 !
Can is save me some how?


You can't hold more than one license in Ontario. When you apply for an Ontario license, you can you use your foreign license for credit if your country has an agreement with Ontario. Depending on your experience, you may be able to skip certain steps. Once you get your G1, your Ontario license is your only license and you should NEVER try to use your foreign license.

bzmw wrote:
3) And - What can I use on the court to avoid - Suspension! (as I know each time when I try to get the insurance I will be forced to reply - IF I GOT DRIVING LICENSE SUSPENSION EVER! - and if I reply - YES - it will affect my Insurance rate. )
I forced to present my self on the court by my self cause - I not even have job yet - so I cant spend extra cad .

I would be appreciated for recommendation - what is the best way to act to avoid the Suspension of my Driving Licence?


Yes, it can raise your insurance rates. Yes, if your provider asks, you must let them know. You can't avoid suspension unless you are found not guilty. This is not something you can beat with a trial, especially if you were alone.


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:59 pm 
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bend wrote:
You can't avoid suspension unless you are found not guilty. This is not something you can beat with a trial, especially if you were alone.


The questions is:
A) - what kind or reasons can give me a real chance to be FOUND NOT GUILTY
for the day of the getting ticket:
1 - was 5 months in country
2 - driving with G1 unaccompanied full G
3 - have admitted 18 years driving experience by Ontario Service
4 - was waiting in the 2.5 months long line to Driving Test

B) - Speeding 60 where 40 (cop used MPH BEE III Traffic Radar - I have a disclosure)_
1 - I was with 7 years old son in the car - He was really wanted to go to the toilet for the last 10 minutes so I was in hurry for a little bit (we just Left the highway)
2 - It was the PA day - we was on the way to sport class - in a new place so I use the GPS but there is alot of looks similar addresses and street names in GTA so we lost and was late for about 40 minutes.
(I have proof).

any recommendation how to build defense in the court by my self?
What should I say to JP ? What is the better way to explain my situation - to be forgiven?
Please!


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1045
bzmw wrote:
The questions is:
A) - what kind or reasons can give me a real chance to be FOUND NOT GUILTY
for the day of the getting ticket:
1 - was 5 months in country
2 - driving with G1 unaccompanied full G
3 - have admitted 18 years driving experience by Ontario Service
4 - was waiting in the 2.5 months long line to Driving Test


You were either driving with someone who qualifies as an accompanying driver or you weren't. There is no other excuse here.

Once you receive your G1 license, your previous history in your previous country doesn't matter. You have one license now. If the wait for your driving test is 2 and a half months, then you wait.

bzmw wrote:
B) - Speeding 60 where 40 (cop used MPH BEE III Traffic Radar - I have a disclosure)_
1 - I was with 7 years old son in the car - He was really wanted to go to the toilet for the last 10 minutes so I was in hurry for a little bit (we just Left the highway)
2 - It was the PA day - we was on the way to sport class - in a new place so I use the GPS but there is alot of looks similar addresses and street names in GTA so we lost and was late for about 40 minutes.
(I have proof).


If your son needs to use the washroom, you can get off the first exit and find somewhere to use the washroom. This is not a defense.

If you don't know where you're going, leave early. Again, not a defense.


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
bend wrote:
You were either driving with someone who qualifies as an accompanying driver or you weren't. There is no other excuse here.
Once you receive your G1 license, your previous history in your previous country doesn't matter. You have one license now. If the wait for your driving test is 2 and a half months, then you wait.


Yes I know that :) The question is - how can I fight for the ticket ?
If you know that I CANT FIGHT - that is your answer!
but not explain and remind me that I DO accused of doing .
Thanx

bend wrote:
If your son needs to use the washroom, you can get off the first exit and find somewhere to use the washroom. This is not a defense.


Ok - I did that - and got off the first exit to find the washroom - but was stopped by cop for speeding! Is this defense?
If not than what?


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:05 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
There is NO DEFENSE for this ticket at all.

However you can plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial in the mail, you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get officers notes, scan them and post them here.

The only way you can beat this ticket is:
(1) if the officers notes are very poor and officer forgot to write something important in their notes, or
(2) the officer does not show up for the trial, or
(3) the trial date is scheduled more than 12 months from the date you request the trial.

Otherwise you have no defense for this ticket.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
Sure
I got the disclosure already

here are the photos of the Tickets offence and
Enforcement Agency notices:

That is the only info was stated in my disclosure? + copies of my Traffic Tickets (I had them all the time) and Copy of the Manual of MPH BEE III Radar (March 2014) ...

Is it ok - enough??

ive been requested as standard:

"
o a full copy of the police officer’s notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officer’s copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
... also .... any information, which is not being disclosed and an explanation for such non-disclosur

"

for



jsherk wrote:
There is NO DEFENSE for this ticket at all.

However you can plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial in the mail, you can request disclosure (copy of officers notes). Once you get officers notes, scan them and post them here.

The only way you can beat this ticket is:
(1) if the officers notes are very poor and officer forgot to write something important in their notes, or
(2) the officer does not show up for the trial, or
(3) the trial date is scheduled more than 12 months from the date you request the trial.

Otherwise you have no defense for this ticket.


Image


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
I need your comments please.
Am I did right in your opinion - was I effective as max as I can.

So here is the story:

I was on the court with no help - by my own.
I was in court today - just a few hours ago.
At the beginning there was a live line to the prosecutor and I was offered at once to choose Speeding to G1 unaccompanied - guilty!
I insist on - G1 unaccompanied to be canceled and the Speeding to be reduced from over 20kn/h to over 15 km/hour to avoid demerit points.

Prosecutor - told me that she is not ready and I have time to think about. So the next person come to here after that.

.....

I was just the absolutely LAST in the Hearing - when the court was empty from other people. So she left me to the very end.
And she asked some guy to go out with me to speak - when I go out the guy asked me WHAT IS MY DECISION -
I told that I WANT TO KNOW FIRST WHERE IS MY COP (cause I didn't see my cop at all - I was looking for him everywhere -
I remember him very well. Especially I was stopped only once in Canada - it was the first time I meet cop and spoke to.)

The Guy told me that - HE IS MY COP. - I told him that he is NOT! :) But he insist - and try to ensure me - show me the number on his solder
(police uniform) and the number in my notice to come to the court are the same. .... I still told him that I remember my cop very well and I have all the
reasons to be abolutly sure that he is NOT MY COP (not the one who stopped me for speeding and fill out the tickets!).

But he insist that HE IS MY COP - he even ask to BELIEVE HIM ! - I was really frustrated through that. I wasn't ready to that kind of matter.

So he offered me to accept prosecturors offer and choose Speeding cause - its for 1 year in the records but Suspension for G1 driving unaccompanied - for whole life.

I took a minute to thought - make some calls. I thought about adjournment that I have a right to, - about the cop which is not the one who gave me the ticket 1000%
and there mast be not his handwriting on it, that I was told here on the forum that I have to see if there is no my policeman at court - the Tickets will be canceled -
and ..... I didn't find any thing more clever for own self for the moment but to stop the Story and
Not choose Come back to the court again after requesting adjournment for more surprises like (my cop is not my cop ... what to do? )and decide to accept the offer .

So I got a 3 demerit points and 75CAD fin to be paid - and two other tickets canceled.

So what do you think? What did I wrong (for the experience to know)? Was there a better way to go?
If I would say to JP that that is NOT the cop who stopped me - what coul JP say - its a kind of froud than?


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
So you plead guilty to the speeding ticket (20 over), and got the other two tickets dropped?

This is good news! :) Congratulations.

Although the speeding ticket carries 3 demerits, if you watch your driving this should not be a problem for you. This ticket could affect your insurance by a small amount, but is much less serious than what a suspension could cause.

And you avoided the suspension so this is very good news.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:35 am
Posts: 18
jsherk wrote:
So you plead guilty to the speeding ticket (20 over), and got the other two tickets dropped?

This is good news! :) Congratulations.

Although the speeding ticket carries 3 demerits, if you watch your driving this should not be a problem for you. This ticket could affect your insurance by a small amount, but is much less serious than what a suspension could cause.

And you avoided the suspension so this is very good news.


Thank you!
I know that !

I would like to here more comment about the cop which in no actually the cop who pulled me over!
and
What did I wrong (for the experience to know)? Was there a better way to go?
If I would say to JP that that is NOT the cop who stopped me - what coul JP say - its a kind of froud than?


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 201
There's been times where I've thought the cop wasn't the one who pulled me over. Maybe he got a haircut, or glasses or something. But Badge Numbers never lie.

I personally would consider this a win and move on. In your original post, you never mentioned the Fail to Surrender Driver's License Ticket. What I'm assuming that happened is that you got caught driving with your out of country license, they ran the name in the system and saw you had a G1 in Ontario. The Fail to Drive with Accompanied G is a Big Conviction, so you're lucky to have that one dropped with the Fail to surrender.

Also, This stays on your record for life as well, but insurance only checks the last 3 years of your driving history.


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Posts: 18
Its not about the hair cut :)
as I mentioned I was stopped only once for my life in Canada
and this is was my first and only meeting with cop
So I remember him VERY WELL + to all My and not My cop has different color of skin . So its a way I cant miss something out

Im sure they have a different Handwriting as well - and Ticket will show it.

.....

He show me a number on the shoulder - is that a POLICE UNIT number or OFFICER NUMER ?

it was just the same as the OFFICER NUMBER: in my notice of trial!
But to be honest it looks like the uniform dosn't fit him .

I didn't check his badge number though :(
But it is not the Cop who pulled me over - 1000%

is that a kind of fraud?
Can I do anything now? Just curios -


UnluckyDuck wrote:
There's been times where I've thought the cop wasn't the one who pulled me over. Maybe he got a haircut, or glasses or something. But Badge Numbers never lie.

I personally would consider this a win and move on. In your original post, you never mentioned the Fail to Surrender Driver's License Ticket. What I'm assuming that happened is that you got caught driving with your out of country license, they ran the name in the system and saw you had a G1 in Ontario. The Fail to Drive with Accompanied G is a Big Conviction, so you're lucky to have that one dropped with the Fail to surrender.

Also, This stays on your record for life as well, but insurance only checks the last 3 years of your driving history.


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Re: class g1 driver unaccompanied by a qualified driver
PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:20 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 788
Your tickets are just three in hundreds that would have been written. There is no way that an officer is going to have a colleague dress up in his uniform and come to court in his place. Why would they both risk $100k per year jobs just to get one over on you. You are mistaken.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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