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12hr vs 3 day Suspension
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:07 pm 
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***I MOVED this quote...as it does not fall under street racing*****
Reflections wrote:
If the breatealyzer reads a warning you now get a 3 day suspension instead of 12 hour. I can understand the 12 hour but 3 days when no law was broken....seems heavyhanded. I'm all for safety but this is overboard.
I could understand 3 days if there is a breatealyzer [sp.] available for the public to try. Say have a beer and take a reading, have a second take a reading and so on. We the public have no access to know what 50mg/100ml feels like, I do know what copious amounts feels like :D . I like to enjoy myself and have a pint or two now and then, but I don't see the need to disrupt someones life for three days when technically they have done nothing wrong.

The instrument that is used at roadside is called an "Approved Screening Device" (ASD)most often is a Drager Alcotest 7410GLC. This instrument is approved by the Canadian Solictor General, and CFS (Centre of Forensic Science).

The Breathalyzer or Intoxilyzer are instruments used back at detachments/stations to get a actual number for how much alcohol is in a person blood.

At roadside if you blow into the ASD and you register between 0-49mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood the actual number will be displayed. From 50mgs to 99mgs an "A" or warning, 100mgs or above is a "F" or Fail.

If you register the 0-49mgs you will be sent on your way.
If you register the "A" that is a 12hr suspension (3 day is not yet in effect)
If you register the "F" the driver is arrested.

When in fact the currrent 12hr is very weak, the reason I say that is NOTHING goes on the driving record. An someone that even gets a 1km over speeding ticket goes on their record.......to compare, someone drinking and driving would get no record.....just doesn't make sense.

With the 3 day suspension for the first time will go on the driving record, 2nd time I think is 7 day suspension.

In general each drink = 15mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. 4 drinks your body = 60mgs. Your body eliminates 15mgs per hr as well. So 4 drinks in 1hr = (15x4 = 60mgs minus 15mgs for 1hr = 45mgs)

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How many drinks before you would register "A" ?
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:21 pm 
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so if each drink is 15mg per 100ml of blood, would that mean some one who has had 2 drinks would have 30mg/100ml and would be safe to drive?

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:24 pm 
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that would be 30mgs......then of course you have some elapsed time I'm sure in that consumption....ie 10-20min at least from end of first drink to end of 2nd, which also starts the elimination process as well

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:32 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
that would be 30mgs......then of course you have some elapsed time I'm sure in that consumption....ie 10-20min at least from end of first drink to end of 2nd, which also starts the elimination process as well


I am still a bit confused....so you are saying that if in 1 hr some one drinks 3 standard beers, he would still be ok to drive with the 45mg/100ml of blood alcohol level?

Because I heard something about G license drivers can have up to max 1 standard drink in their system, and anything over that is against the law.

Can you possibly explain a little bit more about how this works?

Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:08 pm 
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Is there any way to test ourselves for future reference?

ex. I would like to pound down 4 beers in one hour then blow. Is any police service willing to assist me?

We know when we're speeding... we can see the speedometer. But I (and most folks, I suspect) have no idea when they're JUST over the limit with alcohol.


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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:23 am 
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Bookm wrote:
We know when we're speeding... we can see the speedometer.

FINALLY....just actually keep monitoring it....rather than only check it when you drive past us :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 5:27 am 
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Here is a good reference guide, called a "Drink Wheel", you enter the required information and it will give you a result.

http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp

**admin** there is a link on the above site to show you how to add the "drink wheel" to a website, if you think it is appropriate for this site, for your consideration.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 6:11 am 
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admin wrote:
I am still a bit confused....so you are saying that if in 1 hr some one drinks 3 standard beers, he would still be ok to drive with the 45mg/100ml of blood alcohol level?
Because I heard something about G license drivers can have up to max 1 standard drink in their system, and anything over that is against the law.
Can you possibly explain a little bit more about how this works?


Class G1 and G2 can not have any alcohol reading at all...zero!

Class G, is allowed up to 49mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood and can still drive.

An average (regardless of shape/size/sex) eliminates 15mgs of alcohol out of the body in 1 complete hour(60min).....or 7.5mgs out in 30min.

The average standard drink will "input" 15mgs of alcohol INTO the body.
Avg drink is 12oz beer, 1 glass of wine 5oz, 1oz shot.
****************************************************
Other factors:
Food: Food only slows down how fast the alcohol is absorbed into the body through the small intestine. It is still the same amount of alcohol, but it takes longer for your body to feel it.

Weight: Is based on water content in the body. (ie drop of chocolate syrup into a glass of milk and another drop of syrup into a shot glass of milk........the syrup will dilute more in the glass of milk.........chocolate taste will be almost non-existent in the glass of milk). So if you are a heavier person, you have more area(water) for the alcohol to disperse in.

Cheap Drunk as compared to an Expensive One: A person who drinks daily and/or seasoned drinker body reacts in a different manner to the alcohol that is in the body. The body starts becoming immune to the alcohol and to such a point that the body starts relying on alcohol (addicts or AA). Much similiar to nicotene addiction or for some of us a morning....caffeine addiction. Only difference is alcohol adversely affects the body in its day to day functions
***********************************
Coles notes: It takes 1 hour to remove 1 drink from a body.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:41 am 
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So, that still does not answer the question of why do we need a 3-day suspension when we have not broken the law???? An "A" is 50-99 and the legal limit is 80?? Or is there more to this then is currently being told :| ???

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:40 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Here is a good reference guide, called a "Drink Wheel", you enter the required information and it will give you a result.

http://www.intox.com/wheel/drinkwheel.asp

**admin** there is a link on the above site to show you how to add the "drink wheel" to a website, if you think it is appropriate for this site, for your consideration.


Thats a really neat tool!

I will try to some how integrate that into the site in the near future.

Thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 9:57 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
An average (regardless of shape/size/sex) eliminates 15mgs of alcohol out of the body in 1 complete hour(60min).....or 7.5mgs out in 30min.

The average standard drink will "input" 15mgs of alcohol INTO the body.
Avg drink is 12oz beer, 1 glass of wine 5oz, 1oz shot.


Thanks for sharing some light on this.

Most people aren't aware of this fact...at least I wasn't :wink:

I always thought that having anymore than 1 drink in my system, could fail me. But according to the tool as well, I wouldn't be over the limit unless I drank more than 3 beers in an hour.

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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:25 pm 
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Thanks to Hwybear's great suggestion, I have created a new page for that breathalyzer test.

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... r-test.php

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PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:09 am 
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Reflections wrote:
So, that still does not answer the question of why do we need a 3-day suspension when we have not broken the law???? An "A" is 50-99 and the legal limit is 80?? Or is there more to this then is currently being told :| ???


Over 80mgs is absolutely breaking the law...Criminal Code 253(b)

There are other factors that are involved that politicians have to consider when they made the 50-99mgs warning. It depends on alcohol consumption once again....and the variety around it.

ie #1: someone drinks several drinks, but it is now 4hrs later, and goes to blow, that person's readings are on the decline due to elimination of alcohol from the body.....so they could actually blow 99mgs.....and get an "A", but why? If you transport the person to the office (usually 1/2hr, then wait for a lawyer possibly 1/2hr) the person now has elminated 15mgs and down to 84mgs....add in time of 20min minimum between tests the reading will now be under 80mgs and thus NO offence under CC 253(b)

ie #2 someone drinks several drinks quickly, and goes to blow, that persons readings are on the INCLINE as the body has not yet absorbed all of the alcohol into the body.......so they blow 50mgs....and get and "A", but why? The body can only absorb/process alcohol so fast (I forget the rate). So the person could potentially have drank 8 drinks in an hour.....but only shows 50mgs (5 drinks-1hr 1/2half) but still has 3 drinks not yet absorbed, when the body catches up in processing the drinks they will be blowing over 80mgs....and there is an offence under CC 253(b)

No one can tell at roadside which way a persons readings are going (eliminating or inclining)....so this 50-99mgs is a fair way to treat all drivers. It gets the drivers pushing the legal alcohol limit off the road, keeps police from unnecessarily being tied up with an driver that could eventually blow under the limit.

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PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:00 am 
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I agree to the safe side of things but with all the recent changes, I feel we are being safetied to death. Bookm's quip about having fun while driving might be true after all. And didn't you ask the question, "why are we not responsible for our own actions anymore?". Probably because responsibility has been/in the process of is being removed by the law makers. :shock:

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Re: 12hr vs 3 day Suspension
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 10:42 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
The instrument that is used at roadside is called an "Approved Screening Device" (ASD)most often is a Drager Alcotest 7410GLC. This instrument is approved by the Canadian Solictor General, and CFS (Centre of Forensic Science).

The Breathalyzer or Intoxilyzer are instruments used back at detachments/stations to get a actual number for how much alcohol is in a person blood.



If the law were properly implemented as it is written the police cannot administer a Breathalyzer or Intoxilyzer after the roadside screening device is used.

The criminal code is federal law. The highway traffic act is provincial law. The federal law trumps provincial law.

The HTA allow the officer to demand a Breathalyzer after a roadside screening is administered.

However, criminal code s. 258(2) articulates the results from the roadside screening test cannot be used for unauthorized purposes. It lists the valid authorized purposes in 258(a). Section 253(a) or (b) is not listed.

Therefore, the police are not authorized by any law to use the results from 254(2)(b) to force someone to submit to a Breathalyzer test under 254(3) in their attempt to charge them under s. 253.


Code s. 254(2)(b) deals with roadside screening. It states;

(b) to provide forthwith a sample of breath that, in the peace officer’s opinion, will enable a proper analysis to be made by means of an approved screening device and, if necessary, to accompany the peace officer for that purpose.

Unauthorized use or disclosure of results

258(2) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), no person shall use, disclose or allow the disclosure of the results of physical coordination tests under paragraph 254(2)(a), the results of an evaluation under subsection 254(3.1), the results of the analysis of a bodily substance taken under paragraph 254(2)(b), subsection 254(3), (3.3) or (3.4) or section 256 or with the consent of the person from whom it was taken after a request by a peace officer, or the results of the analysis of medical samples that are provided by consent and subsequently seized under a warrant, except

(a) in the course of an investigation of, or in a proceeding for, an offence under any of sections 220, 221, 236 and 249 to 255, an offence under Part I of the Aeronautics Act, or an offence under the Railway Safety Act in respect of a contravention of a rule or regulation made under that Act respecting the use of alcohol or a drug; or

(b) for the purpose of the administration or enforcement of the law of a province.


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