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Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:40 pm 
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First of all - great site, I've spent some time looking at other posts this afternoon and am really impressed with the advice and observations offered.

I was coming home from hockey last Friday night with a buddy of mine in the car with me. I had a couple of beers after the game but thought I was within in my limit to drive home. It was late at night (2:30 am) and I was driving in a residential area, going the speed limit when I noticed the cherries in my rear view. I've been driving for 20 years and have a very clean record (a couple speeding tickets that are almost 3 years old). I pull over and the officer asks if I realized that I drove through the stop sign back there. I'm totally caught off guard b/c there's no way I would blow through a stop sign so he must mean I didn't come to a complete stop. He then asks if I've had anything to drink and I admit that I had a couple beers after the game. He asks if I will submit to the field sobriety test and I comply. I breathe an A (alert) and he lets me know that this means my license will be suspended for three days (so I can get it back tomorrow). Through other posts I understand there is no way to contest this and I only hope it does not affect my insurance. He also issued me another ticket because I have a GM2 license and he thought I couldn't have ANY alcohol. When I explained that I've had my G for 20 years and that the M2 was added last summer when I bought a motorcycle and therefore shouldn't I only be given the ticket if I were on a motorcycle he quickly took the ticket back and said it was useless. Comments???

My question is about the fail to stop infraction. I honestly don't remember (not cuz I was drinking!) if I came to a full stop or not, I was being a chatty cathy with my buddy but it's quite possible that I did a 95% or rolling stop. The officer told me he had it on camera that I did not stop at the sign. I will pay the fine but my biggest concern is the points and subsequent insurance issues that will arise. As I mentioned, I'm almost at the three year mark to have the last speeding ticket taken off. So:

Do I choose Option 2 with a plea of guilty and then hope to hell I can negotiate a lighter sentence? Or Option 3? If option 3, am I actually going to contest the video evidence in front of a JP and the Officer if he shows up? Depending on the answers here, I will likely have more questions although I think some of the other posts will be a big help.

Thanks in advance!


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:21 pm 
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The M2 restrictions should only apply if you are using the M2 licence, which you aren't when you're driving a car.

Option 2 allows you to request a lighter monetary sentence from the court. There is nothing they can do about the points.

If you select Option 3 you will be entitled to a trial, at which they will likely present the video evidence, if it exists.

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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:59 am 
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Thanks Simon - I suspected as much and will head in to court on Friday with a plea of not guilty. My challenge now is proving that I did in fact come to a full stop. From your experience, it is likely that there is in fact video evidence? If it comes down to the officer's word vs. mine, I did have a passenger as a witness - would this help?

Do prosecutors ever negotiate with points? As I mentioned in the first post, I'm willing to pay the fine but would really like to have the points removed. Maybe that's not even possible?


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
Points are not negotiable at all. If you’re convicted they’re automatically applied by the Ministry, not the Courts. The only way to avoid points is to be found not guilty or work out a deal with the Crown to plead guilty to a different offence that doesn't have any.

Don’t get too hung up on points though. Unless your licence is about to be suspended because of them, they make little difference. Insurance providers look at all convictions, not just those with points.


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:14 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:24 pm
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Thanks Stanton - I'm learning a lot. I guess my concern was that I'm almost at the three year point since my last infraction (speeding) and that because of that the next time I go shopping for insurance I might get a break.

So...I guess my question really boils down to: is it worth trying to fight this ticket in hopes of being found not guilty (perhaps a long shot unless the officer doesn't show up or doesn't have video evidence) or striking a deal with the Crown to plead guilty to a different offense?


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
It’s very difficult to say what your chances of being found not guilty in Court are, as each case is quite different. Some cities have bylaw charges relating to stop signs which don’t appear on your driving abstract. If you were offered a plea deal to that, it might be worth considering. More likely the Crown will offer you a reduced fine, but the conviction will still appear on your driving abstract. It should be considered a “minor” offence by most insurance providers, so any impact on your rates should be minimal, but obviously not as ideal as none.


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:24 pm
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ok, well I think I'll file for option 3 on Friday and then in the months that it takes until my trial I will see if there is any evidence I can pull together by visiting the street where it happened. If I have any questions I know where to go. Thanks again for all the help, it's much appreciated.


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Re: Fail to stop AND 3 day suspension
PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:24 pm
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Hi Guys,

My trial is coming up in a few weeks so I thought I would check back to make sure my head is screwed on straight for what is coming up. Can I assume that just before the trial I will be approached by the prosecutor who will ask me if I would like to make a plea bargain? (This sounds too easy...). If this is the case, my answer is yes, I would the charge to be municipal and thus reduce the fine to $65 and no demerit points. If that does not happen then I guess I will just ask for a lesser fine.

If I actually have to try to argue that the I did come to a full stop (there's just no way for me to prove it) then I'm screwed - then what?

My question - what are the possible scenario's that I'm facing in a few weeks and how might I best handle them? Also, is it too late for me to request the transcript and video evidence?

Hope you can help.
Thank you!


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