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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Ontario
$380 per month with a clean record? That's high. It would make sense if you are under 25 with limited experience. I'd budget for a couple hundred extra dollars depending on your fault level and if you are eventually issued a ticket by the police even more. But in all honesty, having seen the way you drive I wouldn't be terribly shocked if they refused to renew your policy. (j/k)


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:36 pm
Posts: 22
bend wrote:
vahank wrote:
If they pay more attention to the video, it is possible to determine that the other vehicle entered the intersection on the yellow light from stopped position. http://i60.tinypic.com/w9hdfa.jpg


It certainly isn't possible to determine the other vehicle was stopped behind the line while the light was yellow. You have a single frame shot where the view of the vehicle is obstructed and you can barely make out the rear end. You can't see the rest of the vehicle, where the line is, where the crosswalk is, etc.

The line on that particular intersection of King and Dufferin runs directly under the control signal and straight with the pole. Considering the angle, it looks like the vehicle is definitely over the line and crosswalk, possibly with its front end in the intersection while the light turns yellow. The drivers on the opposite side turn as they seems unaware the vehicle behind the turning minivan has been waiting to continue straight and not turn, leaving the future accident vehicle stuck in the intersection.

It's an interesting thread. I'd actually hope you'll post a follow up. That being said, if you ignore everything else going on, your theory that the vehicle ran a yellow light while already stopped is inconclusive. Whether or not that vehicle should have waited for the driver in front clear before entering and the other 100 things going on in the video is another story.



Thanks bend. Will keep you updated.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:30 pm 
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ynotp wrote:
$380 per month with a clean record? That's high. It would make sense if you are under 25 with limited experience. I'd budget for a couple hundred extra dollars depending on your fault level and if you are eventually issued a ticket by the police even more. But in all honesty, having seen the way you drive I wouldn't be terribly shocked if they refused to renew your policy. (j/k)


Do you mean extra $200 a month? That's too high for minor accident. I'm over 25 and have only 3 years driving experience.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:59 pm
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Im 99% sure car with dash cam is at-fault.

For sure you saw the green light and saw the red truck making a left turn from your right other-side - which might be indicating no more cars going to cross from your left to right.
However, every single time when you approach an intersection, driving through the green lights, a driver is responsible to observe the traffic conditions.
For example, what if your music in car was too loud and not hearing or seeing an ambulance passing through the red light.
Would you blame the ambulance? No. Ambulance has the right to cross all intersections without stopping at all even though they slow down most of the time.

The car which you collided with, probably ran the red light or yellow. But that car probably did not pass before the red truck turned due to the red truck not letting it to do so.
Instead that car might be stopped in front of the red truck in the middle of road to avoid colliding with the red truck, then must move forward even though the lights switched, just because it already entered the intersection, which means it has to clear the way.

I hope your insurance will help you to hide the video and keep your record clean.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
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Emergency vehicles have the responsibility to make sure the way ahead is safe when going through red or amber. They cannot just forge ahead and expect everyone to stop for them.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 9:01 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1063
xolunaxo wrote:
No. Ambulance has the right to cross all intersections without stopping at all even though they slow down most of the time.


As already pointed out, not true. 144 (20)

Exception – emergency vehicle
(20) Despite subsection (18), a driver of an emergency vehicle, after stopping the vehicle, may proceed without a green indication being shown if it is safe to do so. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (20).


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:36 pm
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I have sent the video to my driving teacher without making my point of view. He told me that the other driver is at fault for sure, but insurance company can give 50-50 because of the fact that I didn't pay attention. He told that when the driver enters on the yellow into the intersection he/she need to be sure that he/she will be able to clear the intersection on time safely.


- And the following I'm just adding as a reminder about "proceeding with caution"
Every driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular amber indication and facing the indication shall stop his or her vehicle if he or she can do so safely, otherwise he or she may proceed with caution. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (15).

- A driver approaching a traffic control signal showing a circular green indication and facing the indication may proceed forward or turn left or right unless otherwise directed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 144 (12).

Again I agree that I should be careful and I accept that there were part of my mistake.

Anyways I have another question. My personal insurance adviser doesn't respond to my emails, my voice mails. And finally I managed to call her yesterday, and my impression that she doesn't care about my case and my video at all. I asked about failure and she was surprised like I'm asking strange question. It feels like she doesn't want to "receive" my video. She told that she didn't receive it, she couldn't find it. I sent it again yesterday, but she again failed to confirm reception ( as promised ) and doesn't respond to my calls again.

I can be patient but my time goes. I may have wrong understanding about failure, but I believe that it's not my failure and I want them to look at the video.

I can't wait for a week for each response. What can I do in such situation?


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:11 am 
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And let's not to talk with "what if" statements, like if there are animal on the intersection, or ambulance. You can't judge the volume level by the recording. I would definitely hear the ambulance sound. Red truck wouldn't drive at front of ambulance. Just please forget about "what if". Pedestrians started crossing intersection and nobody pays to that attention, that she could hit somebody, but we are discussing some scenarios which are not related to the current situation.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2014 12:03 pm
Posts: 201
By watching the video, I can honestly say that it seems that you took off at the green since I was able to hear your engine rev up. Also, there are snow patches on the road. Either way, no matter if you saw her and hit your brakes, or not, you would not be able to stop in time. Based on what was read here plus personal experience, there is no way you will get away with no fault for the accident. A little hint of advice, I never take off at a light by myself, I usually drive alongside the car beside me for about 50m so I know that it is safe to proceed. If you watch in the video, the car beside you did not accelerate because they saw the vehicle proceeding to clear the intersection. That should have been an indicator to not proceed. Honestly, there was no reason for you to take off that fast at a light, especially in snow.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:05 pm 
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UnluckyDuck wrote:
By watching the video, I can honestly say that it seems that you took off at the green since I was able to hear your engine rev up. Also, there are snow patches on the road. Either way, no matter if you saw her and hit your brakes, or not, you would not be able to stop in time. Based on what was read here plus personal experience, there is no way you will get away with no fault for the accident. A little hint of advice, I never take off at a light by myself, I usually drive alongside the car beside me for about 50m so I know that it is safe to proceed. If you watch in the video, the car beside you did not accelerate because they saw the vehicle proceeding to clear the intersection. That should have been an indicator to not proceed. Honestly, there was no reason for you to take off that fast at a light, especially in snow.



The car beside me was turning left and I wasn't excepted him to accelerate.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:36 pm
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Got response from claim advisor from insurance company. I'm not at fault :P

Though I will be careful and drive defensively! Thanks for your help guys. So much relief.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
Congratulations, did the insurance company explain how they came to that conclusion? Did your video help?


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:36 pm
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iFly55 wrote:
Congratulations, did the insurance company explain how they came to that conclusion? Did your video help?



Thank you!
She couldn't open the video, but she wrote me that she made a decision based on video snapshots. No detailed explanations. I haven't try to contact her again. As I mentioned previously it is difficult to get a response from her. I guess she is really busy.


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Re: Please help find who's fault is this (dash cam video)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:50 pm 
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iFly55 wrote:
Congratulations, did the insurance company explain how they came to that conclusion? Did your video help?

It feels like you were right from the beginning and pointed the right points from the act and fault determination rule.


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