Hi, I got ticketed for a 72 in a 50 zone that I actually thought was a 60 zone as it was less than a km before. I had an aggressive driver on my bumper so after tapping my brakes a few time I accelerated to merge into a different lane which was when I got caught in a speed trap. The combination of that and my mistaken belief that it was a 60 zone led to the charge. This is my third minor offense and I can't afford the insurance hike or the demerit points. My first offense was almost 2 years ago exactly. If I take the option of a trial that will delay being given demerit points. Will the demerit points of the first offense be removed from my record such that I won't have to come before the court to argue for no suspension of my license? I saw in a previous post that we can call to see if our ticket was filed within 7 days. How and where do I do this? What is my best course of action? Ideally I would like to have the charges dropped so that my insurance doesn't take that hit. But I'm also concerned of my demerit points situation.
Hi,
I got ticketed for a 72 in a 50 zone that I actually thought was a 60 zone as it was less than a km before.
I had an aggressive driver on my bumper so after tapping my brakes a few time I accelerated to merge into a different lane which was when I got caught in a speed trap.
The combination of that and my mistaken belief that it was a 60 zone led to the charge.
This is my third minor offense and I can't afford the insurance hike or the demerit points.
My first offense was almost 2 years ago exactly. If I take the option of a trial that will delay being given demerit points. Will the demerit points of the first offense be removed from my record such that I won't have to come before the court to argue for no suspension of my license?
I saw in a previous post that we can call to see if our ticket was filed within 7 days. How and where do I do this?
What is my best course of action? Ideally I would like to have the charges dropped so that my insurance doesn't take that hit. But I'm also concerned of my demerit points situation.
Demerit points stay on your record for two years but the conviction is on your driver's abstract for three. So your first conviction is still on record but the points should be gone by now. License suspensions for demerit points are handled by MTO not the courts. The best course of action? Request a trial, plea bargain it down or fight it. There's lots of information here and on my site how to do that. One word of warning, your explanation won't be a good defence.
Demerit points stay on your record for two years but the conviction is on your driver's abstract for three. So your first conviction is still on record but the points should be gone by now.
License suspensions for demerit points are handled by MTO not the courts.
The best course of action? Request a trial, plea bargain it down or fight it. There's lots of information here and on my site how to do that.
One word of warning, your explanation won't be a good defence.
A better defence would be to ask for disclosure, and if you don't get a complete disclosure apply for a stay. If you don't get disclosure at all, delay is crown's fault, and if delay more than 1 year, 11(b) will be a good defence. Other way is to play hide and seek with the cop, if he shows up at trial you will not, instead your friend would be in court and ask for a delay of the trial; if the cop does not show up, make sure you are there.
A better defence would be to ask for disclosure, and if you don't get a complete disclosure apply for a stay.
If you don't get disclosure at all, delay is crown's fault, and if delay more than 1 year, 11(b) will be a good defence.
Other way is to play hide and seek with the cop, if he shows up at trial you will not, instead your friend would be in court and ask for a delay of the trial; if the cop does not show up, make sure you are there.
I am changing my court date because of work obligations. I am getting disclosure but not entirely sure what to look for. I just noticed that on my ticket the officer failed to fill out the Section of the Highway Traffic Act that I mad an offense against despite describing my offense. Is that worth something? Someone told me not to show up to the trial and the justice of the peace would throw out the ticket because of this but I don't want to do that because it's like an automatic guilty plea if the justice peace doesn't see this. Also since when I got pulled over it was a speed trap with two officers. Is it true that if only one of them appear I can have the case thrown out?
I am changing my court date because of work obligations. I am getting disclosure but not entirely sure what to look for. I just noticed that on my ticket the officer failed to fill out the Section of the Highway Traffic Act that I mad an offense against despite describing my offense. Is that worth something? Someone told me not to show up to the trial and the justice of the peace would throw out the ticket because of this but I don't want to do that because it's like an automatic guilty plea if the justice peace doesn't see this. Also since when I got pulled over it was a speed trap with two officers. Is it true that if only one of them appear I can have the case thrown out?
In your case, it looks like full disclosure would be a copy of the officer's notes and the lidar manual. For the manual, they will need to provide you with the parts of the manual that deal with the testing and use of the device. This is so that you can determine, from the officer's testimony, if the device was tested and used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions (and therefore considered reliable) or not. The officer's notes should indicate something like: - Tested device at time x, working properly - Observed MV (yours) visually at speed that was above posted limit - Activated and used device, recorded "x" speed on vehicle - Stopped vehicle without sight lost - Identified driver (you), issued ticket That is what the officer will need to testify to in order to secure a conviction. There is case law addressing this specific situation. Unfortunately, if the officer sufficiently described the offence "did commit the act of speeding 72 km/h in a posted 50 km/h zone," failing to fill out the section of the HTA that was disobeyed (s. 128) is not going to get the ticket quashed. This is even if you follow the "default and appeal" procedure that is available if the set fine and/or total payable amount is incorrect. If the officer wrote a section that conflicted with the described offence, and it may confuse the defendant, then you'd be able to "default and appeal." By leaving it blank, the courts have ruled that describing the offence is sufficient and no confusion is likely to be created for a reasonable individual. In short: Don't miss your trial date. If one was recording speeds and flagging down the vehicles, and the other was writing tickets, then yes. If the officer that ticketed you also recorded the speed of your vehicle and flagged you down, then no.
pixie wrote:
I am getting disclosure but not entirely sure what to look for.
In your case, it looks like full disclosure would be a copy of the officer's notes and the lidar manual. For the manual, they will need to provide you with the parts of the manual that deal with the testing and use of the device. This is so that you can determine, from the officer's testimony, if the device was tested and used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions (and therefore considered reliable) or not.
The officer's notes should indicate something like:
- Tested device at time x, working properly
- Observed MV (yours) visually at speed that was above posted limit
- Activated and used device, recorded "x" speed on vehicle
- Stopped vehicle without sight lost
- Identified driver (you), issued ticket
That is what the officer will need to testify to in order to secure a conviction.
pixie wrote:
I just noticed that on my ticket the officer failed to fill out the Section of the Highway Traffic Act that I mad an offense against despite describing my offense.
There is case law addressing this specific situation. Unfortunately, if the officer sufficiently described the offence "did commit the act of speeding 72 km/h in a posted 50 km/h zone," failing to fill out the section of the HTA that was disobeyed (s. 128) is not going to get the ticket quashed. This is even if you follow the "default and appeal" procedure that is available if the set fine and/or total payable amount is incorrect. If the officer wrote a section that conflicted with the described offence, and it may confuse the defendant, then you'd be able to "default and appeal." By leaving it blank, the courts have ruled that describing the offence is sufficient and no confusion is likely to be created for a reasonable individual.
In short: Don't miss your trial date.
pixie wrote:
Is it true that if only one of them appear I can have the case thrown out?
If one was recording speeds and flagging down the vehicles, and the other was writing tickets, then yes.
If the officer that ticketed you also recorded the speed of your vehicle and flagged you down, then no.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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