Fight stop sign

I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?

Any help would be appreciated

liveontheedge wrote:

a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?

Can you return to the exact precise point with the same make and model cruiser and sit in the driver's seat at the same height, same height as the officer and view the location? There are so many variables in taking a picture from where you think the officer was and what view point you think the officer had. Good luck if that is your avenue of choice!

Most likely this type of ticket was issued because you didn't come to a COMPLETE stop at the stop sign. All the officer really has to do is say he witnessed the act. Good luck fighting this in court. Just try a plea bargain IMO.

It doesn't matter if you stopped on the line or not, or where the officer was sitting. All he has to see is if you stopped or not, and you probably didn't come to a complete stop.

hwybear wrote:

liveontheedge wrote:

a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?

Can you return to the exact precise point with the same make and model cruiser and sit in the driver's seat at the same height, same height as the officer and view the location? There are so many variables in taking a picture from where you think the officer was and what view point you think the officer had. Good luck if that is your avenue of choice!

Thanks for replying.

I knew exactly where he was sitting, i saw the cruiser when i passed thru the intersection. In any case, given the cruiser is taller or bigger, he can not see the stop line because i was uphill.

admin wrote:

Most likely this type of ticket was issued because you didn't come to a COMPLETE stop at the stop sign. All the officer really has to do is say he witnessed the act. Good luck fighting this in court. Just try a plea bargain IMO.

It doesn't matter if you stopped on the line or not, or where the officer was sitting. All he has to see is if you stopped or not, and you probably didn't come to a complete stop.

I did "complete" stop, the cop was just an as..., now it's my word against his and likely the judge will be on his side as i was told. i need a technical defense to win here.

As for plea bargain, what kind of the deal is likely offered? what can it be reduced to unless the crown completely change the nature of the offence.

Thanks for any input

The HTA is different than the Criminal Code in that under the HTA, the Crown can accept your offer to change the offense to an unrelated offense. The JP doesn't have to accept this "deal", but he likely will if it's clear that both you AND the prosecutor are in agreement.

I'd propose a change to Improper Muffler or some other non-moving violation (no points).

Bookm wrote:

The HTA is different than the Criminal Code in that under the HTA, the Crown can accept your offer to change the offense to an unrelated offense. The JP doesn't have to accept this "deal", but he likely will if it's clear that both you AND the prosecutor are in agreement.

I'd propose a change to Improper Muffler or some other non-moving violation (no points).

Thanks for pointing out the difference

Bookm wrote:

I'd propose a change to Improper Muffler or some other non-moving violation (no points).

Is this possible at all?

diehard wrote:

Is this possible at all?

Depends on the Prosecutor.

Radar Identified wrote:

diehard wrote:

Is this possible at all?

Depends on the Prosecutor.

Can't the Prosecutor get offended if I ask him to change to conviction from "Failed to Stop Sign" to "Improper Muffler"?

If the cop is present, can he object to this?

Will the Improper Muffler conviction affect insurance?

Thanks.

i have only seen a prosecutor accept a suggestion/plea to another offence where there is evidence for in the situation.

(ie: speeding to disobey sign, which is the PSL)

(ie: careless to fail to drive in a marked lane)

etc..