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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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79 in 50 zone
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 9:52 am 
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I have a knack for getting these tickets, first time a few years back was on the upside - increasing speed too soon before entering the 80 zone and just yesterday was on the downside - slowing down but not quite to 50 (actually at 79) when I entered the 50 zone.

However, cop was parked at stop sign intersection, about 50 m from the "50 km MAx" sign, in my view impeding traffic exiting that street - is that legal? Can he ticket me if he is illegally parked?

I was slowing down, should'nt he give me a warning instead? Am I actually speeding if I am decelerating?

Do I lose points for 29 km over? If so he did not advise me on this. Any merit in arguing this fact in court?

Is there a range when speed guns are not accurate? Who is to say he did not clock me outside the 50km zone? Can I argue this?

Is there any truth to cops having to meet their month end quotas? This
happened on Aug 29th?

I know these are a lot of questions, but it is not the fine I am upset over, just the princpal, I am normally a safe driver. :x :x


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 1:52 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Quote:
Can he ticket me if he is illegally parked?
It's not about him, it's about you. The issue will be whether you were speeding.

Quote:
Am I actually speeding if I am decelerating?
If you are going faster than the posted limit, you are speeding.

Quote:
Do I lose points for 29 km over?
There is a demerit point link at the bottom of this page. And yes you do gain points (you don't loose them, you start at 0)

Quote:
Is there a range when speed guns are not accurate?
Yes there is but it is farther than the human eye can see.

Quote:
Who is to say he did not clock me outside the 50km zone?
If he walked out into traffic and motioned for you to pull over, it is unlikely he had enough time to clock you and walk out into traffic, 79km/h is 22 metres/second. If he pursued you in his cruiser, it's his word against yours.


Quote:
Is there any truth to cops having to meet their month end quotas?
It depends on your jurisdiction. In Toronto there is a daily quota called 25 and home.

First, request a trial and second request disclosure. It will give you his perspective of what he saw. Regarding the quota, you can request to know the number of tickets he wrote for the last few months, though you may have to go through FOI to get it. Your argument will be that he was taking shortcuts (not following police procedure - you have to FOI this as well) to meet his quota.

If you live in a designated French Language Area, the 50km/h "Begins" sign must be bilingual. If it isn't then the speed limit is the previous zone's. The exception is if you are entering a residential area from a highway which has a default speed of 50km/h anyway, no sign is necessary.

You can also ask the prosecutor for a reduction in the speed/fine to try and get something with no points (15km/h over the limit).

Fight the ticket, you have nothing to loose at this point.

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70 in 50 - Question re trial option.
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:24 pm 
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ticketcombat wrote:
Quote:
Can he ticket me if he is illegally parked?
It's not about him, it's about you. The issue will be whether you were speeding.

Quote:
Am I actually speeding if I am decelerating?
If you are going faster than the posted limit, you are speeding.

Quote:
Do I lose points for 29 km over?
There is a demerit point link at the bottom of this page. And yes you do gain points (you don't loose them, you start at 0)

Quote:
Is there a range when speed guns are not accurate?
Yes there is but it is farther than the human eye can see.

Quote:
Who is to say he did not clock me outside the 50km zone?
If he walked out into traffic and motioned for you to pull over, it is unlikely he had enough time to clock you and walk out into traffic, 79km/h is 22 metres/second. If he pursued you in his cruiser, it's his word against yours.


Quote:
Is there any truth to cops having to meet their month end quotas?
It depends on your jurisdiction. In Toronto there is a daily quota called 25 and home.

First, request a trial and second request disclosure. It will give you his perspective of what he saw. Regarding the quota, you can request to know the number of tickets he wrote for the last few months, though you may have to go through FOI to get it. Your argument will be that he was taking shortcuts (not following police procedure - you have to FOI this as well) to meet his quota.

If you live in a designated French Language Area, the 50km/h "Begins" sign must be bilingual. If it isn't then the speed limit is the previous zone's. The exception is if you are entering a residential area from a highway which has a default speed of 50km/h anyway, no sign is necessary.

You can also ask the prosecutor for a reduction in the speed/fine to try and get something with no points (15km/h over the limit).

Fight the ticket, you have nothing to loose at this point.
Quote:

    Thanks for the reply, it was very informative. One quick question, if I request a trial and also disclosure and after reviewing the officers report and facts, I decide not to go to court, am I then liable for court costs, etc.?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:41 pm 
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Phizler wrote:
If...I decide not to go to court, am I then liable for court costs, etc.?
Costs are already included on your ticket. Going to court will only cost you your time, you are already charged the full amount.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Quote:
Costs are already included on your ticket. Going to court will only cost you your time, you are already charged the full amount.


There is a separate fine schedule for going to trial. I'm not sure of where you can find it.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:52 am 
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Location: Toronto
The set fine amounts are in Schedule 43.

The voluntary payment option offered a discount for things like parking tickets but few jurisdictions offer it anymore. [The City of Toronto got rid of it in 2004.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the speeding fine amount remains the same whether you pay or challenge it in court. I remember there used to be a slight difference (about $1/km) between the out of court settlement and the set fine. Does it still exist?

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79 to 50 continued
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:43 am 
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ticketcombat wrote:
The set fine amounts are in Schedule 43.

The voluntary payment option offered a discount for things like parking tickets but few jurisdictions offer it anymore. [The City of Toronto got rid of it in 2004.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the speeding fine amount remains the same whether you pay or challenge it in court. I remember there used to be a slight difference (about $1/km) between the out of court settlement and the set fine. Does it still exist?


What if this officer clocked me outside the 50 zone? He was parked approximately 50m from where the sign was posted. I could have been 60m away. Can I argue this or is it his word against mine? Does the radar gun register the distance away where the vehicle was clocked?[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:25 am 
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Quote:
What if this officer clocked me outside the 50 zone?
hwybear, who is far more knowledgeable than me on radar operation, may want to contribute too.

Basically, the cop can start tracking you well before the sign as long as he notes that there was no change in your speed or your speed was greater than the posted limit once you passed the sign.

To track you, he's got to get a good lock on your vehicle, eliminate any other vehicles or interference with a visual check and watch you to see if you slow down. He can't do this once you pass the sign, it won't be enough time.

Through disclosure, you will see his notes as to what he did. Based on that you can prepare a defence strategy.

And of course the usual challenges, the device was properly serviced, tested and in working order, the officer properly certified and trained, no radio wave interference near that location, etc...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
ticketcombat wrote:
Quote:
What if this officer clocked me outside the 50 zone?
hwybear, who is far more knowledgeable than me on radar operation, may want to contribute too.

Basically, the cop can start tracking you well before the sign as long as he notes that there was no change in your speed or your speed was greater than the posted limit once you passed the sign..


Without being there it is hard to speak of where and at what point you were tracked. Maybe you can maquest the streets for us, but that would not show the speed signs, unless of course you return to that area and use your odometer from road "X" to the beginning of the speed zone.

Personally, if I would pick a reduction area, I'm well within the zone (1/2km or more) OR sit right at the sign (ie 50km begins) and only track vehicles AFTER they have went past my cruiser into the slow zone...to avoid this type of confusion.

Last resort is just use lidar. Obtain the distance of the speed sign from my location and then ensure all vehicles targeted are less than that distance.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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79 to 50 continued
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:47 am 
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Thanks HWYBEAR, so I take it that the officer can actually clock me after i have passed him? In otherwords also going away from him.


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Re: 79 to 50 continued
PostPosted: Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:15 am 
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Phizler wrote:
Thanks HWYBEAR, so I take it that the officer can actually clock me after i have passed him? In otherwords also going away from him.

yes

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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