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After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ticket
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:58 pm 
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I'm having a big issue right now.

Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I stopped last last minute when the vehicle came into my sight but it was too late.

He has very minimal damage on his bumper. I have about $1000-1500 damages. Airbags did not deploy. Did not feel like a big hit, very soft.

Cops come and boom, $500 Careless Driving ticket + 6 demerit points. This was in Brampton, ON btw.

I am 24 with 6 years of driving experience, I won't be able to afford insurance after this ticket. I have only had a couple parking tickets in the past. And one accident which I was not at fault. I am not going through insurance for the damages on either car. I'd rather just fork up the cash upfront and not have to deal with insurance headaches.

What is the best way to reduce the ticket as much as I can? I don't have much experience in this stuff but it seemed like the cop was going hard on me based on her attitude, etc. I'm mostly worried about insurance as careless driving is a major offense.

Should I go for an early meeting with the prosecutor? Or should I request a trial and ask for the evidence, etc. No other witnesses except for the other driver.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
Read through the forums as this is a very common topic. Careless driving is the typical charge laid in any rear end collision. Your best bet is probably to take a plea deal to a lesser offence such as follow too close.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:55 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
Read through the forums as this is a very common topic. Careless driving is the typical charge laid in any rear end collision. Your best bet is probably to take a plea deal to a lesser offence such as follow too close.



my plan atm is to not do the early meeting but instead file for trial. i will then ask for prosecutor evidence. depending on the evidence, i will decide whether or not i have a good case or not.

if the cop doesn't show up then i will plead innocent. if the cop shows up and the evidence is a lot then i will take a plea deal with the prosecutor.

sound good?


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Normally, with these simple minor-accident ticket trials, the officer will not be present; he didn't witness the accident, and does not really have anything to contribute other than the information recorded in the motor vehicle accident report.

The other driver or nearby witnesses will be subpoenaed to your trial date and give evidence as crown witnesses.

Your plan is good, choosing the trial option gives you more flexibility. If the other driver doesn't appear at your trial, then the charges will get withdrawn especially in Brampton, ON. You're also entitled to the crown's evidence, which will most likely be the MVAR and any witness statements provided to the police.

Once you get your 'Notice of Trial', you can obtain this information through a disclosure request: topic2959.html


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:28 pm 
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iFly55 wrote:
Normally, with these simple minor-accident ticket trials, the officer will not be present; he didn't witness the accident, and does not really have anything to contribute other than the information recorded in the motor vehicle accident report.

The other driver or nearby witnesses will be subpoenaed to your trial date and give evidence as crown witnesses.

Your plan is good, choosing the trial option gives you more flexibility. If the other driver doesn't appear at your trial, then the charges will get withdrawn especially in Brampton, ON. You're also entitled to the crown's evidence, which will most likely be the MVAR and any witness statements provided to the police.

Once you get your 'Notice of Trial', you can obtain this information through a disclosure request: topic2959.html



yep, the disclosure request was what i was talking about in terms of "evidence". just forgot the term!

is the plea offer at court usually same as at the early meeting?


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 5:56 pm 
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canuckavelli wrote:
is the plea offer at court usually same as at the early meeting?


It's not a guaranteed you'll go to one and receive the same offer at the other. That being said, it's usually the same or something similar.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:55 pm 
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bend wrote:
canuckavelli wrote:
is the plea offer at court usually same as at the early meeting?


It's not a guaranteed you'll go to one and receive the same offer at the other. That being said, it's usually the same or something similar.



good so im prob not missing much by not going to early meeting.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:11 pm 
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Got my notice of trial

I was planning to send the disclosure by mail and not include my phone number so that they are forced to mail it to me. And if they don't, it would work in my favour. However, I came upon this disclosure form http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/Cit ... 20form.pdf and it says "Disclosure is provided by Fax or Pick-up ONLY". Should I still use the above strategy? Or will it work against me?


Also is it too late to request early meeting with prosecutor if I already got my notice of trial? I feel like I should've just gone that route and gotten it over with.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:38 am 
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canuckavelli wrote:
Got my notice of trial

I was planning to send the disclosure by mail and not include my phone number so that they are forced to mail it to me. And if they don't, it would work in my favour. However, I came upon this disclosure form http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/Cit ... 20form.pdf and it says "Disclosure is provided by Fax or Pick-up ONLY". Should I still use the above strategy? Or will it work against me?


Requesting that you pick up your disclosure is a perfectly suitable way of fulfilling your request. They are only required to make it available to you. If that means you have to pick it up, then you'll have to pick it up. If you knowingly refuse to pick it up, then your trial will continue as scheduled. You're only hurting yourself.

canuckavelli wrote:
Also is it too late to request early meeting with prosecutor if I already got my notice of trial? I feel like I should've just gone that route and gotten it over with.


You'll have the same opportunity on your trial date.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:37 am 
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bend wrote:
canuckavelli wrote:
Got my notice of trial

I was planning to send the disclosure by mail and not include my phone number so that they are forced to mail it to me. And if they don't, it would work in my favour. However, I came upon this disclosure form http://www.brampton.ca/EN/City-Hall/Cit ... 20form.pdf and it says "Disclosure is provided by Fax or Pick-up ONLY". Should I still use the above strategy? Or will it work against me?


Requesting that you pick up your disclosure is a perfectly suitable way of fulfilling your request. They are only required to make it available to you. If that means you have to pick it up, then you'll have to pick it up. If you knowingly refuse to pick it up, then your trial will continue as scheduled. You're only hurting yourself.

canuckavelli wrote:
Also is it too late to request early meeting with prosecutor if I already got my notice of trial? I feel like I should've just gone that route and gotten it over with.


You'll have the same opportunity on your trial date.



But if I send the request of disclosure without my phone number, how will they tell me to pick it up? Would they send me a letter asking me to pick it up.

What I've gathered is:

If I send the form via mail with a phone number - they will call me and ask me to pick it up.

If I send the form via mail without a phone number - they will ignore and I will have to fight for a STAY in court.

I forgot what the notice of trial said in regards to disclosure. If it said you have to go in person, then it's not good for me. But if it doesn't say anything like that then maybe I have a good chance of fight for a STAY?


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
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I think the odds of getting a stay under those circumstances are pretty low. Most likely what would happen is that the prosecution would give you disclosure on your court date. The court would then grant you an adjournment to a new date so that you'd have time to review the disclosure.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:23 pm 
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So the Notice of Trial just says

"You have the right to receive disclosure [...] You must ask the prosecutor for disclosure in order to receive it."

No mention of including phone number or coming in person.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:28 pm 
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After researching I've to the following conclusions.

Fax disclosure request from a canada post location as opposed to sending registered mail. it's cheaper and you have a paper trail. But how do I make sure they don't send a fax back to the same number? Can they see that number?

Include the phone number on the disclosure request. Best thing that could happen if you don't is an adjournment. I don't want an adjournment. Also, if I include the phone number, they have no excuse to why they didn't contact me.


Anyone have any objections to my above points?


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
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Strategically leaving out your phone number and restricting communication to mail has been discussed in length here before; please use the search button to find more information.

In the Greater Toronto Area the prosecutor's office may not have the resources to mail disclosure packages. The courts understand this, and expect defendants to provide a phone/fax number, e-mail in order to receive disclosure.

It's your responsibility to exercise due diligence in obtaining disclosure.

They normally will not attempt to send a fax back to the same phone number; it takes them 6-8 weeks to process your disclosure request. They're standard procedure is that they call you and advise you that the disclosure package is ready for pickup.

You will ultimately receive disclosure at your trial date. The JP will look at how you tried to obtain disclosure. Did you just send one request? or several requests? How early did you send the first request?

The lack of phone number will come up at your first appearance, and the prosecution will in their right say you didn't provide them sufficient means to contact you. At which point the adjournment can easily be argued as neutral or your fault by the prosecution. An 11b stay will be near impossible to argue down the road.

If you include a phone number and they haven't contacted you; you should submit a new disclosure request and try contacting the prosecutor's office as to the status of your request. This can be used in your favour, that you showed due diligence and exhausted all avenues to obtain disclosure.

If your objective is to receive disclosure than provide as many means for the prosecutor's office to contact you: cell phone, home phone, business number, e-mail.

Early resolution will not help you here, you have an opportunity for the charges to get withdrawn if the other driver doesn't show up. I don't understand why you would throw that opportunity away.


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Re: After accident, the police gave me a Careless Driving ti
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:28 pm 
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Great comment. Thanks for posting.

I think I will send a disclosure request via registered mail with my phone number.

Then I will send another one every month until I get disclosure.

I will file for stay if I do not receive it.

At the court house if I see the cop, I'll take plea bargain. If I don't then I will proceed and hopefully have it thrown out.

If the other driver doesn't come, will it get thrown out as well. I'm 95% sure that he won't. He's a busy guy who travels a lot and didn't think I deserved the ticket.


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