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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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$325 ticket for not stopping
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:48 pm 
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Hey guys, im in a sticky situation if someone could help me out I would be really grateful.

Here is my situation:
I am heading eastbound on a small residential street with a posted 40 km/hr and a stop sign comes up. The intersection is deserted so naturally, i slow down and stop for like a microsecond and then proceed with caution to make a left turn.

I know i know, stop for 3 seconds. My bad.

Now cop is going westbound and was about 300 ft away from the intersection. As i crossed the intersection i saw him out the corner of my eye. Now i didnt realize he would stop me and give me such an enormous ticket.

thanks for your help


Heres my charge:

Careless Driving contrary to H.T.A 130
fine total payable: $325

Shouldnt the ticket have been under:

Regulations, signs and markings

182. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations requiring or providing for the erection of signs and the placing of markings on any highway or any type or class thereof, and prescribing the types of the signs and markings and the location on the highway of each type of sign and marking and prohibiting the use or erection of any sign or type of sign that is not prescribed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (1); 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 32.

or failing to stop? I dont understand how not stopping for 3 seconds before making a left turn falls under careless driving Thanks again


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Wow, that's really hefty for Failing to Stop. Is there anything that the cop mentioned to you besides the fact that you allegedly disobeyed the stop sign? Did you cut anyone off? Were there any pedestrians in the area? I mean... :shock:

There is no "three second" rule in the Highway Traffic Act. You either stop, or you do not. If your forward movement has ceased, even for a microsecond, you have stopped. The only way I can see a Careless Driving charge being laid is if you almost hit another car or almost ran over a pedestrian.

Definitely fight this ticket. While Careless Driving is one of the hardest charges to prove, it has absolutely catastrophic insurance implications. Most insurance companies, if you get a Careless Driving conviction, simply drop your coverage, or they'll double (or more) your premiums. If anything, worst-case scenario, you could plead it down to a lesser charge. But do everything reasonably possible to avoid being stuck with this one.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:49 am 
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Radar Identified,

Thanks for your advice. I know for a fact that there were no pedestrians around because Im not a maniac I dont really need a Hit and run charge right now. But besides that, nope no pedestrians, nothing. Just me the road and the cop. Do you have any specific ways i might be able to fight this ticket? I mean obviously the first step is to set a court date, but Iv never really dont this so any detailed suggestions would be great thanks guys.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:27 am 
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Location: Guelph, Ontario
Well, first off, send in your ticket (or drop it off at the court location) saying that you will dispute the charge, as well as the Notice of Intention to Appear (you can get it here). That is Option 3 on the ticket. Scan/photocopy/photograph the ticket prior to that for your purposes. Write down all exactly what had happened with that ticket - this may help you in court.

Wait for the letter from the court. This will tell you the date of the trial. When you get the letter with the trial date, file for disclosure. Look what the officer had written...

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:58 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
I'm sure there is more to this than what we know, which should be indicated within the disclosure.

Often if there is multiple offences, we use all that evidence as careless driving. (ie did not signal, blew the sign and improper turn)

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Hwybear and Racer,

Thanks for your advice. Just a few questions if you guys dont mind. What is a disclosure and how would I go about picking it up? I mentioned it to the receptionist at Markham/Milner courthouse and she told me to worry about it later and was pretty rude with the answer. If you guys could please clarify it for me, that would be great.

As for the violation, when I go on my trial date, can i mention the scenario to the judge and ask him/her that the charge is wrong? It should be failing to stop? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:33 pm 
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Location: Toronto
Disclosure package is something you have to request from the Prosecutor's office. It is where you get to see all of the Crown's evidence against you, in this case mainly the officer's notes. Here is an explanation:

http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosure.php

My guess is that you got charged somewhere in Scarborough. For the trial, the Montessori School across the street from the court parking lot is $5 for the whole day, you'll save $1. Also most of the Prosecutors there are willing to reduce charges if you're willing to plea bargain.

I'd stay away from a detailed explanation of events. If you admit that you rolled the stop, you've admitted guilt to an offence, even if it isn't specifically careless driving. As part of your preparation, after you get the officer's notes, go back to the intersection and photograph it from approximately where the officer said he was when he observed you commit the offence. By the way... which intersection was it where the offence occurred? Just curious as I live in Scarborough.

On a side note, if you want a paralegal to fight this, any competent one should be able to absolutely wreck the Crown's case.


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