Illegible disclosure

Hi,

I picked up the disclosure but could not really understand what it said. Can anyone help decifering the scripts? I faxed in an Additional Disclosure Request. The court date is June 8. Is there anything that I can/should do before the court date? Thanks.

I tried to upload the disclosure, but could not. Anyways, this is what I thought it said:

sunny day, 6314 KHOOSH & GABE.

ATLAMA 24072 AUOK

ON TRIPOD 621

E of Parkside Dr. 110 N side Posted 60 zone 400m E of LOC 4 lanes wb, wb & eb separated by large median (Park) w/trees

Pull L 1 over into L4

Simply Scan the disclosure and Attach it here. We can help you read your disclosure that way. Mark out any thing personal.

Here is the disclosure. Hope you can read it. I'd appreciate if you could advise me, based on the disclosure, whether I had a chance to fight the ticket or it's better that I take the prosecutor's offer for lower fines and no demerit points.

here is my reading of it

**************************

**officer back of ticket**

Sunny, dry

Cruiser 6-314

????

Laser Atlanta ser # 24072 on tripod

Test 621am and 110pm

East of parkside drive, north side

Posted 60km zone 400m east of location

4 lanes WB

WB & EB lanes separated by large median (park)

With trees (?)

Pull vehicle over into ???

*************

**officer front of ticket**

female driver, blue Honda, lane 1, lead 80km/hr at 257m

Thanks for "explaining" the disclosure. Did you see anything from the disclosure that the officer had missed or mistaken? FYI, the colour of my vehicle is black instead of blue. If the officer cannot distinguish blue from black, how accurate would his eye sight be when it comes to catching speeding drivers? Just my thought.

If the officer testified and gave the incorrect vehicle colour, it could help somewhat in raising reasonable doubt, but I don't think that one mistake would be enough on its own. I think it would also be somewhat dependent on how off the vehicle color was. If your car is a dark blue and he said black, easily explainable. Florescent orange and he wrote black, somewhat more problematic.

Fyi, reading over the notes, I think the last line on the back simply says "pulled over into L4", meaning lane four or the curbside lane. I'm also not sure what he actually wrote for the color of your vehicle. It looks like the right letters for "blue", but it's misspelt.

blue/black = think that is how myself or Stanton reading the letters, the officer will be able to say for sure what he/she wrote as it is their writing ...not ours

I faxed in an additional disclosure request last week, requesting it be typed. I'll wait and see what it says. How accurately is the laser speeding device?

mow319 wrote:

How accurately is the laser speeding device?

The device itself, if properly tested and used, is extremely accurate. Any type of false reading would most likely be due to operator error.

Most laser devices have a targeting sight, and cast a very narrow beam. Compared to radar, it's much easier to target select vehicles.

It's pretty hard to argue the reading itself is incorrect if it was properly tested. You'd have to argue that the reading was from a different vehicle, etc.

Yes, I am thinking of arguing that was from a different vehicle since he wrote on the ticket that my vehicle was blue, which actually is black. But I have to wait till I receive the 2nd disclosure to see what colour he actually said my car was.

I'm pretty sure it says "BLK" on the ticket. "BL" is before the box on the ticket, and what looks like "le" in the box is actually a wide "K" where the pen did not lift completely to make the second stroke.

You could be right. I'm waiting for the 2nd disclosure, I requested that it be typed because the first disclosure is quite hard to read. I can be certain what he actually wrote on the ticket when I see it. He even put down the wrong address on the ticket.

Police and doctors must attend the same school for penmanship, doctors for their prescriptions and police for their tickets.

Notwithstanding everything else, I think the Prosecutor would probably agree to a plea-bargin to 10 or 15 over.

I believe there's no demerit points for 10-15 over, right? What about insurance premium? I think it would go up crazy. This is my first ticket and I am a new driver aged over 25.

Correct, no demerit points for 10-15 over. If this is your first ticket, if it is for 15 or less over, there's a reasonable possibility that your insurance company will forgive it. That largely depends on your insurance provider. However, I really haven't seen too many insurance companies plow premiums through the roof for one minor speeding ticket. (Well... except for one...) Gather all of the evidence you need and make a decision from there, as to whether you want to fight it full-out, or go for a plea bargain.

FYI... throughout my driving experience, I've usually had one minor speeding ticket on my driver abstract (3 year history). Only once did my rates go up, but that was due to having two of them in a three-year period, one for 15-over, the other for 20-over. Even then, it was only $150 for a 12-month period.

Court date is June 8. I still haven't received the additional disclosure. I'm getting a bit worried and nervous, not knowing for sure what to say or do next Wed. The best senario would be the officer doesn't show up, or somehow get the ticket dropped.

I just read an article on the trafficombat.com website that said "the charging document must clearly identify what you did wrong. It should indicate:

•the date, time and place of the offence;

•What act you violated;

•Who has laid the charge.

In order for you to prepare an adequate defence you need to know what wrong you allegedly committed. If they haven't provided it, the trial should not continue."

Does it mean that the place of the offence should be the full address of the location where the offence took place? On my offence ticket, it only said "WB Lakeshore Bl W". Is it precise enough?

My court date is June 8 and I still have not received the additional disclosure. I requested it be typed. The first disclosure I received is only the photocopy of the cop's notes, which are not legible. They did not give me the copy of the manual for the speed-measuring device I requested the first time.

Because I do not have complete disclosure to properly prepare myself, can I move for a dismissal due to lack of disclosure? Is this how I do it?

-Go in next Wednesday, if the prosector offers a lower charge/fine, I'll tell him I want to speak to the JP and reject his/her offer.

-Then when I am called, I'll tell the JP because I do not have complete disclosure to properly defend myself, I'd move for a dismissal due to lack of disclosure.

Any help is appreciated!!

mow319 wrote:

On my offence ticket, it only said "WB Lakeshore Bl W". Is it precise enough?

It should also include the name of city or township, but the road name is sufficient for a speeding offence. A cross street would only be required for intersection related offences such as stop signs, red lights, etc.

As for your second question, you would be seeking a stay in your trial under section 7. I'd suggest doing some serious research and know your case law if you're going that route. Expect serious resistance, especially if you're just making an oral motion at trial. Do a forum search for some guides and other posts on the process.

Thanks, Stanton. I think I'll ask the JP to postpone it to later till I receive full disclosure. I asked for the manual which they did not provide. Do you think I should also for the officer's training record?

There is one posting in this site about a similar offence wrote: "No training record and no manual disclosure to you is ground for a stay application based on insufficient disclousre (s.7 charter violation).

I went to court today for a charge of 80 in a 60 zone on Lakeshore Blvd. I went up to the man outside the court room. He looked at his list and said, "You are charged with going 80 in a 60 zone. Now I can change it to 16 over with 3 demerit points, but you'd pay less fines." I was shocked because I expected he would at least lower the charge to 10 over and no points. I denied it and went in the court room. Another woman came to me and asked what her assistant had offered me. I told her the offer and I said I did not receive typed disclosure. She said, "You were speeding, and the ticket is all you need to have. I can ask the offer to explain his notes to you now. Follow me." I went out with her and did not get a chance to witness how other defendants do. Anyway, I waited 10 minutes, the officer came. I told him I wanted his typed notes. He said he gave out over a thousand tickets a year, he simply doesn't have time to type his notes. He went over his notes and suggested that the prosecutor was able to lower the charge and fines. Long story short, when I entered the court room again, there was only one defendant left. Her ticket was withdrawn because the officer wasn't there. My turn. I told the JP that I requested a typed disclosure but did not get it. He said, "you are not going to get typed notes." The prosecutor said she could ask the officer to explain his notes to me now. I said he already did but I had not taken any notes. The JP told the officer to go over his notes with me again, as if it was a typed disclosure. I took notes this time. Later we went back in the room and the JP asked if I was satisfied with the disclosure. I said yes, but I need time to prepare. So the next court date is set for Dec 20.

Can I file for an 11b because the offence took place in August 2010? It will be 16 months since it happened. If I am to file an 11b, do I wait till I receive the Notice of Trial? I have this feeling that the notice would be sent to the wrong address, because the address on the offence ticket is wrong. Last time I asked for the manual, but I did not mention it in court today. Can I still request disclosure for the manual?

Any help is appreciated.

Hi everyone,

I was at trial yesterday for going 80 km in a 60 km zone. I requested twice for disclosure of the officer's notes and the manual of the speed-measuring device before trial, but only got officer's illegible notes. When I was called up, I told the JP that I wanted an ajournment because I did not receive typed disclosure. JP said, "You would not receive typed notes." The prosecutor said she could ask the officer to go over the notes with me right then. The JP told the officer to read the notes to me as if it were a typed written disclosure. I took notes when the officer decifered his notes. When we got back in the court room, the JP asked if I was satisfied with the disclosure. I said yes but I need time to prepare. The JP adjourned the trial to Dec 20.

My questions are:

1. The offence took place in August 2010, 16 months from the trial date. Can I file an 11b? I requested an adjournment because I did not receive proper disclosure. Will this delay be considered as caused by the accused?

2. The JP asked if I was satisfied with the disclosure, I said yes but I only meant the officer's notes. Can I put in additional disclosure request for the manual and other evidence?

3. The officer put 2 other officers' names in his notes. He said they were there with him then. Do these 2 officers also have to be at trial?

Any help is appreciated.

Put together the request for the manual and follow up with an 11B.

2nd court date is Dec 20, 2011. I am undecisive if I should file an 11b motion to stay the case. I did not get a typed disclosure but the officer was made to go over the notes with me by the JP on the first court date. When the JP asked if I was satisfied with the notes, I said yes and I need time to review the notes. JP adjourned to Dec 20 which will be 16 months from the offence date. I am not sure if the extra 6 months was counted as the crown's fault or mine. Can someone please help?

And should I order the transcript?

Radar Identified wrote:

Put together the request for the manual and follow up with an 11B.

Hi, can someone please review my sworn statement and advise if I have missed anything or included too much information? Thank you very much.

Today is my second court date and I was ready to argue my 11b. I waited till the end and when they finally called me, it was 11:59. The prosecutor told me that the case would be adjourned to May 2012 becasue they had run out of time. Do I need to file another 11b for this further delay? The total wait time will be 21 months from the offence date.