A co-worker (NOT ME!) got a court date of just 2 months after submitting his not-guilty plea on a speeding ticket. He hand delivered his disclosure request to the court and the clerk told him he needs to take it to the police station. He did so... 4 weeks went by and he just received a phone message from the officer stating that he will hand deliver the information when they meet at the courthouse before trial (less than a week away). He called me to see what his options are: - I suggested he wait 'till I get advice HERE ;) It's pretty obvious to me that he would, at a minimum, be awarded a continuance based on the need to review the disclosure, then seek legal council. But I wanted to check and see if he has grounds to seek an outright dismissal based on the last-minute disclosure. Any thoughts?
A co-worker (NOT ME!) got a court date of just 2 months after submitting his not-guilty plea on a speeding ticket. He hand delivered his disclosure request to the court and the clerk told him he needs to take it to the police station. He did so...
4 weeks went by and he just received a phone message from the officer stating that he will hand deliver the information when they meet at the courthouse before trial (less than a week away).
He called me to see what his options are:
- I suggested he wait 'till I get advice HERE
It's pretty obvious to me that he would, at a minimum, be awarded a continuance based on the need to review the disclosure, then seek legal council. But I wanted to check and see if he has grounds to seek an outright dismissal based on the last-minute disclosure.
No harm in asking for a stay but I think the continuance will be awarded. If the continuance stretches out to the magic 9 month plus mark, then file form 4F could be filed out and the stay awarded anyway. If I were the JP I would dismiss the charges based on these tactics. It's not like Joe Public gets a ticket everyday, but the courts deal with them everyday so there is no excuse.
No harm in asking for a stay but I think the continuance will be awarded. If the continuance stretches out to the magic 9 month plus mark, then file form 4F could be filed out and the stay awarded anyway. If I were the JP I would dismiss the charges based on these tactics. It's not like Joe Public gets a ticket everyday, but the courts deal with them everyday so there is no excuse.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
Bookm wrote:
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Almost exactly.... here is how my office runs things....seems easy enough - person uses option # 3 and returns PON to court - court sends trial notice to defendant and officer - officer receives notice and submits disclosure (Police court officer drives the disclosure to court and files it) - person asks for disclosure and disclosure is already at court house - court people just have to pull out the disclosure and mail it
Reflections wrote:
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
Almost exactly.... here is how my office runs things....seems easy enough
- person uses option # 3 and returns PON to court
- court sends trial notice to defendant and officer
- officer receives notice and submits disclosure (Police court officer drives the disclosure to court and files it)
- person asks for disclosure and disclosure is already at court house
- court people just have to pull out the disclosure and mail it
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Yes, I remember reading that which is why a DOUBLE-asked him if it was FOR SURE the officer that called him... He's sure (left his name as Constable so-'n-so). Seemed odd to me. Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Yes, I remember reading that which is why a DOUBLE-asked him if it was FOR SURE the officer that called him... He's sure (left his name as Constable so-'n-so). Seemed odd to me.
Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Don't think it is improper disclosure. What happens is our court has a file for each case and can track everything on the front of the file (ie: first court date, resolution meeting, next court date, adjournments, disclosure etc..) Something like the "police notes thread" area...not marked down...didn't happen?
Bookm wrote:
Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Don't think it is improper disclosure.
What happens is our court has a file for each case and can track everything on the front of the file (ie: first court date, resolution meeting, next court date, adjournments, disclosure etc..) Something like the "police notes thread" area...not marked down...didn't happen?
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Just a couple of points. Disclosure is the sole responsibility of the Crown. While the Crown may delegate that responsibility to the police or another agency, the obligation for disclosure remains with the Crown alone. So why was your co-worker requesting disclosure from the police??? It should never have been sent to them directly. (An FOI request is different). Second,in R. v. Egger, [1993] (2 S.C.R. 451), the Supreme Court stated "disclosure must be made early enough to leave the accused enough time to take any steps that may affect that right..." In other words, you can't simply disclose at the last minute. In R. v. Stinchcombe, [1991] (3 S.C.R. 326), the Supreme Court stated that the element of surprise had no place in modern trials since "acceptance of the principle that justice was better served when the element of surprise was eliminated from the trial and the parties were prepared to address issues on the basis of complete information of the case to be met." One word of caution, the disclosure request was never made to the Crown so they can't be blamed for not providing it. The best thing to do is step back, request disclosure from the Crown NOW, then at trial force the Crown to request an adjournment to provide disclosure. Had (s)he requested disclosure correctly in the first place, then yes, there would be a strong argument, but given the short turn around from offence date to trial, an adjournment rather than a stay would have resulted.
Just a couple of points. Disclosure is the sole responsibility of the Crown. While the Crown may delegate that responsibility to the police or another agency, the obligation for disclosure remains with the Crown alone.
So why was your co-worker requesting disclosure from the police??? It should never have been sent to them directly. (An FOI request is different).
Second,in R. v. Egger, [1993] (2 S.C.R. 451), the Supreme Court stated "disclosure must be made early enough to leave the accused enough time to take any steps that may affect that right..." In other words, you can't simply disclose at the last minute.
In R. v. Stinchcombe, [1991] (3 S.C.R. 326), the Supreme Court stated that the element of surprise had no place in modern trials since "acceptance of the principle that justice was better served when the element of surprise was eliminated from the trial and the parties were prepared to address issues on the basis of complete information of the case to be met."
One word of caution, the disclosure request was never made to the Crown so they can't be blamed for not providing it. The best thing to do is step back, request disclosure from the Crown NOW, then at trial force the Crown to request an adjournment to provide disclosure.
Had (s)he requested disclosure correctly in the first place, then yes, there would be a strong argument, but given the short turn around from offence date to trial, an adjournment rather than a stay would have resulted.
He did hand-deliver it to the crown's office. The clerk there told him to take it to the police station, which he then did. Thanks for the info TC, I'll pass it on and followup with the results.
He did hand-deliver it to the crown's office. The clerk there told him to take it to the police station, which he then did.
Thanks for the info TC, I'll pass it on and followup with the results.
UPDATE: Turns out court date was TODAY! Just got a call from happy co-worker. He went in and asked a group of officers if officer so-'n-so was in. They said he wasn't there yet. So he went and talked to the crown and told him he was going to motion for dismissal based on lack of disclosure. Crown said, "don't bother. I'm dropping the charge", and sent him on his way! :)
UPDATE:
Turns out court date was TODAY! Just got a call from happy co-worker. He went in and asked a group of officers if officer so-'n-so was in. They said he wasn't there yet. So he went and talked to the crown and told him he was going to motion for dismissal based on lack of disclosure. Crown said, "don't bother. I'm dropping the charge", and sent him on his way!
Just found this thread after posting a very similar one in the wrong forum (thanks to the mod for moving it)... Ticketcombat -- you mentioned that if Bookm's request was made to the Crown, there would be a strong argument for dismissal rather than adjournment. My situation is exactly that -- so can I make a "dismissal" request at trial? How (any paperwork/timelimits involved)? And at what point in the trial (eg. after arraignment, like your site mentions for a stay)? My trial is a week and a half away!
Just found this thread after posting a very similar one in the wrong forum (thanks to the mod for moving it)...
Ticketcombat -- you mentioned that if Bookm's request was made to the Crown, there would be a strong argument for dismissal rather than adjournment. My situation is exactly that -- so can I make a "dismissal" request at trial? How (any paperwork/timelimits involved)? And at what point in the trial (eg. after arraignment, like your site mentions for a stay)? My trial is a week and a half away!
I was stopped for allegedly doing 122 in a 90. I requested disclosure and like most received the minimum. The notes are just a photo copy with no explanations or typing. Only received parts of the manual that pertain to testing. Appears the officer was using a "Laser Atlanta Speed Laser", but no model or serial number is referenced in the notes. Testing is noted in two times written at the…
Hey guys, wanted to know if anyone has had a similar situation, and if you have any advice:
I was travelling E/B on Dundas St and had a green light to turn S/B on Spadina Ave. There's a no right on red sign, I observed it. I initiated my maneuver, slowly pulling my car into position to make the turn. This intersection is super busy, and there was a group of pedestrians who were painfully slowly…
This is the first traffic ticket that i have ever had, and i was wondering if someone could shoot me some of their advice as to how i could go about the case?
It was a red light, i approached the intersection and stopped, noticed two pedestrians on the right of me, and one officer on left and right of my vehicle, on the cross walks. They were pay duty for construction happening. I was waiting for…
I thank you in advance for the opportunity to share my concern here with you and also ask for help . I have a portfolio for 21 years, 16 years in class A / Z and with my Abastract / CVOR record both clean. I was stopped by an OPP on HWY 6 towards Tobermory, On just because I was above the allowed highway limit. According to the policeman, he told me that I reached 130km / h in an…
I can't find the category for this post so I'm posting it here.
Two questions...
1. Are golf carts considered a 'vehicle' under the Highway traffic act? I know carts can't drive across roads or on roads but if you try to bring one from the USA into Canada they are considered a 'vehicle'.
2. If you are on private property are you allowed to carry 'opened' alcohol in your golf cart? I know golf…
I was going southbound on 427 and exited at Queensway (Toronto). I needed to make a right turn and it is no right turn on red. So I stop on red light. There were 3 cars in front of me. I get the green arrow pointing right. So the cars turn right and when I was turning the green arrows just turned off. There was no amber. It just turned off. So I get pulled over…
Back on august 28th around 7 40 in the morning I got pulled over by a cop in a car that was not legally registered for the road yet, Stupid as it was i was literally just taking it for a drive on my street because it was sitting for so long My street is a residential street so i didn't think i cop would be turning on it anytime soon. But of course i got unlucky. He got me gave me 3 tickets. By…
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got pulled over for disobey the "No Heavy truck" sign, on the ticket it say Highway traffic act Section 182(2), but I think I didn't disobey the "No Heavy Truck" sign, because my truck was loaded with delivery items(which at the time it was under 5 tonnes), I didn't request for disclosure, the cop that pulled me over didn't even check my truck to see if it is over 5 tonnes.
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
This morning I came downstairs to see my car with a ticket on it for $150 for parking in a fire route. The underground parking is under construction and we cannot park there so the tenates have to park either in visitors or adjacent streets. I have been parking in the same spot for a week and nothing was said to me until I found the ticket Sunday morning. I looked at every other car parked where…
Just bought my 1st GPS. Pretty decent little outfit. Have used it on a couple of short trips and got me to the destintation properly.
I have taken it to work recently and it is not as accurate as I first had hoped. The calculation of my vehicle speed is off by 2km/hr (GPS reads high). When stationary in many locations, it does not place me exactly where I am parked. On 2 different times it…
HI! So my husband was driving home at 2 am and blew out his back passenger tire which caused him to hit a parked car, he did quite a bit of damage to the car , there was no one around , and he did not have any paper to leave a note, also because it was a very old 1980 car and my husband assumed the damage was less than 1000,00 dollars and he left and did not report it until the next day. A week…
Issued in a news release by Toronto Police Traffic Services Sergeant Tim Burrows, these were the top 10 peeves of drivers in an on-line survey by the Toronto Police:
10. Slow drivers
9. Slower-moving drivers who pull into your lane when you're going faster
I received a speeding ticket this past weekend, and although the officer was nice and gave my 6yo a coupon for a free slushy, I want to fight the ticket.
The officer wrote the offence as "95km/h in a posted E0 km/h zone" the "E" being what looks like a written backwards 3. Now I know and you can probably guess he intended to write an 8 but that is not what is there it is an incomplete 8 and…
Quick run down of my situation: My liscence was suspended in early September for a DUI. Got caught driving last weekend on the 401. Officer claimed I was pulled over because she figured I was speeding and I looked suspicious because I was looking around in the car too much. She searched the entire car looking for weed - none was found. I was charged with driving while under suspension.
I wasn't quiet sure where this should go, so I am going to try here.
I am 25 years old, and I have had my G2 license since March 2010. I haven't upgraded to my full G only out of not really having the time nor cash to do it as of yet. In early February of this year I was pulled over by an OPP at a RIDE program and blew a 0.031 BAC. I was unaware at the time that I was supposed to have a BAC…
I was involved in an accident last month. I was proceeding along a street with cars parked adjacent to the curb. Approaching an intersection I saw a large truck and trailer parked against the curb (no brake lights, or turn signals) so I presumed he was parked there. I approached the intersection, following the same path as all the other traffic, just to the right of the centre line. When I…
I have received 2 pieces of paper on the door of my home within the last week. Looks like I am being summons to witness for an accident where the other driver was at fault last year. (He hit me and was charged at the scene).
I'm just wondering if anyone knows how many attempts they will make to serve me, or if they will keep trying until they do ?
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and set fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and when I jst about to turn left the light turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my rear-view mirror. It…
Highway 21 is often closed in the winter. I and a lot of other people need to cross Highway 21 to get to work. Several people have told me that if a highway is closed, it's not only illegal to drive along the highway, but to cross it on any intersecting road, because while you cross it you're technically driving on a closed road.
Hi all, I was ticketed for this offense while on a bicycle where I "turned left" at a red light without first coming to a complete stop at the red light. It was a T-intersection where I was facing the straight through lanes (4 lanes, two in each direction) and a side street came in from the right only (2 lanes, one in each direction), and no vehicles or pedestrians were entering from the right at…
In early March I was driving in the Yonge & Churchil area. An officer said I failed to stop at a stop sign and ticketed me 110+3 demerits. While getting my license etc. I have multiple photocopy of my car ownership in my car, and that I thought I handed him the copy with the validation sticker on the back as required but gave him one of the blank copies by accident. He came back with…
