A co-worker (NOT ME!) got a court date of just 2 months after submitting his not-guilty plea on a speeding ticket. He hand delivered his disclosure request to the court and the clerk told him he needs to take it to the police station. He did so... 4 weeks went by and he just received a phone message from the officer stating that he will hand deliver the information when they meet at the courthouse before trial (less than a week away). He called me to see what his options are: - I suggested he wait 'till I get advice HERE ;) It's pretty obvious to me that he would, at a minimum, be awarded a continuance based on the need to review the disclosure, then seek legal council. But I wanted to check and see if he has grounds to seek an outright dismissal based on the last-minute disclosure. Any thoughts?
A co-worker (NOT ME!) got a court date of just 2 months after submitting his not-guilty plea on a speeding ticket. He hand delivered his disclosure request to the court and the clerk told him he needs to take it to the police station. He did so...
4 weeks went by and he just received a phone message from the officer stating that he will hand deliver the information when they meet at the courthouse before trial (less than a week away).
He called me to see what his options are:
- I suggested he wait 'till I get advice HERE
It's pretty obvious to me that he would, at a minimum, be awarded a continuance based on the need to review the disclosure, then seek legal council. But I wanted to check and see if he has grounds to seek an outright dismissal based on the last-minute disclosure.
No harm in asking for a stay but I think the continuance will be awarded. If the continuance stretches out to the magic 9 month plus mark, then file form 4F could be filed out and the stay awarded anyway. If I were the JP I would dismiss the charges based on these tactics. It's not like Joe Public gets a ticket everyday, but the courts deal with them everyday so there is no excuse.
No harm in asking for a stay but I think the continuance will be awarded. If the continuance stretches out to the magic 9 month plus mark, then file form 4F could be filed out and the stay awarded anyway. If I were the JP I would dismiss the charges based on these tactics. It's not like Joe Public gets a ticket everyday, but the courts deal with them everyday so there is no excuse.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
Bookm wrote:
Just to be clear, the officer said he would present the disclosure "just before trial", not in advance. I read a response by Radar ID (elsewhere on this forum, in a similar scenario) that perhaps he should refuse to accept the last minute disclosure package and apply to the court for a stay instead.
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Almost exactly.... here is how my office runs things....seems easy enough - person uses option # 3 and returns PON to court - court sends trial notice to defendant and officer - officer receives notice and submits disclosure (Police court officer drives the disclosure to court and files it) - person asks for disclosure and disclosure is already at court house - court people just have to pull out the disclosure and mail it
Reflections wrote:
'Bear wrote that the request for disclosure comes from the prosocuter to him....can't find it right now......so why wouldn't it go from him to the prosocuter to the defendant?????
Almost exactly.... here is how my office runs things....seems easy enough
- person uses option # 3 and returns PON to court
- court sends trial notice to defendant and officer
- officer receives notice and submits disclosure (Police court officer drives the disclosure to court and files it)
- person asks for disclosure and disclosure is already at court house
- court people just have to pull out the disclosure and mail it
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Yes, I remember reading that which is why a DOUBLE-asked him if it was FOR SURE the officer that called him... He's sure (left his name as Constable so-'n-so). Seemed odd to me. Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Yes, I remember reading that which is why a DOUBLE-asked him if it was FOR SURE the officer that called him... He's sure (left his name as Constable so-'n-so). Seemed odd to me.
Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Don't think it is improper disclosure. What happens is our court has a file for each case and can track everything on the front of the file (ie: first court date, resolution meeting, next court date, adjournments, disclosure etc..) Something like the "police notes thread" area...not marked down...didn't happen?
Bookm wrote:
Would this make a difference to the JP? My "gut" says, Improper Disclosure.
Don't think it is improper disclosure.
What happens is our court has a file for each case and can track everything on the front of the file (ie: first court date, resolution meeting, next court date, adjournments, disclosure etc..) Something like the "police notes thread" area...not marked down...didn't happen?
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Just a couple of points. Disclosure is the sole responsibility of the Crown. While the Crown may delegate that responsibility to the police or another agency, the obligation for disclosure remains with the Crown alone. So why was your co-worker requesting disclosure from the police??? It should never have been sent to them directly. (An FOI request is different). Second,in R. v. Egger, [1993] (2 S.C.R. 451), the Supreme Court stated "disclosure must be made early enough to leave the accused enough time to take any steps that may affect that right..." In other words, you can't simply disclose at the last minute. In R. v. Stinchcombe, [1991] (3 S.C.R. 326), the Supreme Court stated that the element of surprise had no place in modern trials since "acceptance of the principle that justice was better served when the element of surprise was eliminated from the trial and the parties were prepared to address issues on the basis of complete information of the case to be met." One word of caution, the disclosure request was never made to the Crown so they can't be blamed for not providing it. The best thing to do is step back, request disclosure from the Crown NOW, then at trial force the Crown to request an adjournment to provide disclosure. Had (s)he requested disclosure correctly in the first place, then yes, there would be a strong argument, but given the short turn around from offence date to trial, an adjournment rather than a stay would have resulted.
Just a couple of points. Disclosure is the sole responsibility of the Crown. While the Crown may delegate that responsibility to the police or another agency, the obligation for disclosure remains with the Crown alone.
So why was your co-worker requesting disclosure from the police??? It should never have been sent to them directly. (An FOI request is different).
Second,in R. v. Egger, [1993] (2 S.C.R. 451), the Supreme Court stated "disclosure must be made early enough to leave the accused enough time to take any steps that may affect that right..." In other words, you can't simply disclose at the last minute.
In R. v. Stinchcombe, [1991] (3 S.C.R. 326), the Supreme Court stated that the element of surprise had no place in modern trials since "acceptance of the principle that justice was better served when the element of surprise was eliminated from the trial and the parties were prepared to address issues on the basis of complete information of the case to be met."
One word of caution, the disclosure request was never made to the Crown so they can't be blamed for not providing it. The best thing to do is step back, request disclosure from the Crown NOW, then at trial force the Crown to request an adjournment to provide disclosure.
Had (s)he requested disclosure correctly in the first place, then yes, there would be a strong argument, but given the short turn around from offence date to trial, an adjournment rather than a stay would have resulted.
He did hand-deliver it to the crown's office. The clerk there told him to take it to the police station, which he then did. Thanks for the info TC, I'll pass it on and followup with the results.
He did hand-deliver it to the crown's office. The clerk there told him to take it to the police station, which he then did.
Thanks for the info TC, I'll pass it on and followup with the results.
UPDATE: Turns out court date was TODAY! Just got a call from happy co-worker. He went in and asked a group of officers if officer so-'n-so was in. They said he wasn't there yet. So he went and talked to the crown and told him he was going to motion for dismissal based on lack of disclosure. Crown said, "don't bother. I'm dropping the charge", and sent him on his way! :)
UPDATE:
Turns out court date was TODAY! Just got a call from happy co-worker. He went in and asked a group of officers if officer so-'n-so was in. They said he wasn't there yet. So he went and talked to the crown and told him he was going to motion for dismissal based on lack of disclosure. Crown said, "don't bother. I'm dropping the charge", and sent him on his way!
Just found this thread after posting a very similar one in the wrong forum (thanks to the mod for moving it)... Ticketcombat -- you mentioned that if Bookm's request was made to the Crown, there would be a strong argument for dismissal rather than adjournment. My situation is exactly that -- so can I make a "dismissal" request at trial? How (any paperwork/timelimits involved)? And at what point in the trial (eg. after arraignment, like your site mentions for a stay)? My trial is a week and a half away!
Just found this thread after posting a very similar one in the wrong forum (thanks to the mod for moving it)...
Ticketcombat -- you mentioned that if Bookm's request was made to the Crown, there would be a strong argument for dismissal rather than adjournment. My situation is exactly that -- so can I make a "dismissal" request at trial? How (any paperwork/timelimits involved)? And at what point in the trial (eg. after arraignment, like your site mentions for a stay)? My trial is a week and a half away!
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…
