How to file an 11B

CAROL
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Re: How to file an 11B

Unread post by CAROL on

diehard wrote:
clyrrad wrote:Thanks diehard - but I guess my question would be - how do you prove they got the fax? What if they say the fax was never received? How do we prove they got the fax without having their stamp on each book?

PS: The books are already printed and we paid Staples to Bind them so dont really mind so much having to get the stamp, but it sucks that the only options are Ottawa or Toronto??
The stamp for the Attorneys-General is not essential.

But you must keep the fax receipts, that is very important to prove that they have been served.
In addition to the fax receipts, I believe you also need to swear out short affidavits saying you served each of the Attorney Generals by fax. I couldn't tell by the previous messages whether you had done this but thought I would mention it just in case.

In my case they kept me waiting to the end of the court period and when they called my name and I walked up, they indicated that I had filed an 11B and my case was stayed. I didn't have to do anything. I guess if the JP doesn't mention your 11B and asks you how you plead you should indicate that you filed an 11B and have your copy of the 11B package ready to show with the court and the prosecutors stamp as proof that it was served on them.

Just after I served my 11B book on the prosecutor I also got a request from them for a transcript from the previous appearance where an adjournment was granted. When I got it I served it on the prosecutor and the court. When the person in the court office pulled out the court file on my case and added their copy of the transcript, I could see my 11B request in the bundle.


clyrrad
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Unread post by clyrrad on

Hi Carol

Whats been done is the following.

6 Books containing all the necessary information were created and bound per the instructions on this site and ticketcombat.com. All 6 books were stamped and served to the Attorney General of Ontario and Canada. Also served was the court and the prosecutor leaving 2 copies left over for the day of court.

The prosecutor said there was no need to have anything sworn, that having the books stamped and serving everyone was sufficient for an 11B application. Is this not true?

I still have my remaining question of what happens from here........ Now that the 11B is filed what is to be expected? Do you have to argue the 11B in court on the trial date? Do you have to ask the case be stayed based on the 11B? What do we do next?


CAROL
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Unread post by CAROL on

clyrrad wrote:The prosecutor said there was no need to have anything sworn, that having the books stamped and serving everyone was sufficient for an 11B application. Is this not true?
I just followed the process outlined in this thread.

I ended up going through the swearing process a total of 8 times. I swore my statement that was included in the books I had prepared 6 times (once for each book). I then served the book on the prosecutor and had all 6 copies stamped leaving one with them. I then faxed a copy to each of the attorney generals and made a copy of the 2 fax receipts. I then went back to the commissioner of oaths at the court office and swore 2 Affidavits of Service I had prepared to confirm that I faxed the packages to the attorneys. Probably could had just done 3 books to save time and not make the commissioner of oaths go through the process so many times...


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Unread post by LAWguy on

Quick question on the books; :arrow:

Lets say I was issued 2 tickets of which both are being challenged on 11b. Should I include a copy of both tickets in the book as well? Or does every separate charge require a whole new book?
"It's only a matter of time before you get pulled over for something"


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

I'd say that if both tickets were issued during the same event, then include a copy of both tickets. If they are from two separate traffic stops, then you'll need a whole new book for sure.
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LAWguy
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Unread post by LAWguy on

Thanks Radar! Great thread.

Quick question tho, I am a little confused on the 2 possible procedures. On Ticketcombat it refers to only having to file a form 4F with affidavit of service. Is this also sufficient to file 11b? And if so, does form 4F also have to be witnessed and signed by a commissioner of oaths? Ticketcombat is not clear on weather form 4F has to be signed by commissioner of oaths. :?
"It's only a matter of time before you get pulled over for something"


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

A lot of the information on ticketcombat's website is out of date. Do not use a 4F; that is for civil court. The Notice of Application and Constitutional Question is the correct format, outlined by diehard, CAROL and myself (see the links). The Commissioner will need to sign any Sworn Statement/Affidavit that you make in support of the Application, but not the entire Application. The Sworn Statement is basically you saying "this is what happened and why I am applying for a stay." The rest of the Application does not need to be signed; however, the Affidavits of Service will need to be signed by a Commissioner or Notary and filed with the court.
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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

And just to add... I've become the latest to get a charge tossed based on an 11B. HOWEVER, it was like pulling teeth.

At my first appearance, quite surprisingly, the Prosecutor fought it tooth-and-nail. This was surprising for two reasons:
1. Most of her arguments were not applicable, and
2. The Prosecutor's office had failed to provide disclosure despite several requests. (Even the officer thought the Prosecutor erred.)

The JP rejected the 11B initially, but ordered that disclosure be produced, charging the delay to the Crown. So I ordered the transcripts and put together another 11B. This one included the transcript evidence, and I argued "abuse of process." I followed the same procedure, except that I included the transcript as an attachment, and updated the argument.

Second Appearance: The Prosecutor withdrew the charge without a fight. Go figure.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

Radar Identified wrote:And just to add... I've become the latest to get a charge tossed based on an 11B. HOWEVER, it was like pulling teeth.

At my first appearance, quite surprisingly, the Prosecutor fought it tooth-and-nail. This was surprising for two reasons:
1. Most of her arguments were not applicable, and
2. The Prosecutor's office had failed to provide disclosure despite several requests. (Even the officer thought the Prosecutor erred.)

The JP rejected the 11B initially, but ordered that disclosure be produced, charging the delay to the Crown. So I ordered the transcripts and put together another 11B. This one included the transcript evidence, and I argued "abuse of process." I followed the same procedure, except that I included the transcript as an attachment, and updated the argument.

Second Appearance: The Prosecutor withdrew the charge without a fight. Go figure.
Was this at the Toronto East Court Office?


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

Yes it was.
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Andy370
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Unread post by Andy370 on

Hi everyone,

sorry for the stupid question. While reading ticketcombat, i saw a reference to the R. v. Vellone, 2009 case which is from higher court, which states, you can just do an 11b without any notice... sections 10 to 25 of the ruling: http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/20 ... cj150.html. anyone can comment on this?

Thanks.


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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

I think most people who have gone through the process of filing and arguing an 11B would tell you that you should file it at least 20 calendar days in advance, at a minimum. R. v. Vellone was not made by a Superior Court Justice (or higher), therefore it is not binding on any other court. The JP could rule that your application was not filed with appropriate lead time and dismiss it.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


robbiedigital
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Unread post by robbiedigital on

Hi guys,

Just wondering how important the original ticket is in the 11b application? I'm 99% it's been lost over the past year...


diehard
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Unread post by diehard on

robbiedigital wrote:Hi guys,

Just wondering how important the original ticket is in the 11b application? I'm 99% it's been lost over the past year...
I think the notice of trial is the most important document, but you can always call the Court Office and see if they have a copy anywhere.


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Unread post by robbiedigital on

Thanks - I've actually asked for a copy in my Request for Disclosure.






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