How to file an 11B

apologize for bumping this thread

i just got my trial date and it's 10 months from my offense date, can i still file an 11 (b)?

10 months is not enough of a delay to warrant an 11B.

Radar Identified wrote:

10 months is not enough of a delay to warrant an 11B.

I guess: 10 months 21 days is not long enough either?

fish1234 wrote:

I guess: 10 months 21 days is not long enough either?

General consensus is 1 full year.

my 1 yr and 25 days still got quashed in court!

actng wrote:

my 1 yr and 25 days still got quashed in court!

It's just the minimum, unfortunately no guarantee. Still very dependent on the jurisdiction and JP.

I'm finally ready to drop off my Applications at the various locations. I know a lot of people are suggesting that faxing is easier, but because I have the time and work downtown, I'd actually prefer to drop them off in person and not have to worry about faxed receipts and affidavits of service.

To be clear - this is still a legit process, correct?

I'm fairly nervous about the actual day in court as I'm approaching the 15 business day mark, though if I'm able to drop them all off tomorrow, I'll be around 17/18 days ahead. However, my trial, through no fault of my own, is 17+ months after the ALLEGED offense date, so based on what I've read, that should be enough.

I did speak to the guys at Ex Copper (who wanted $300 to prepare the 11b!) and they mentioned that the Old City Hall JPs are huge sticklers, and they are less willing to accept an 11b than other Toronto courts. Anyone have any first hand experience?

clyrrad wrote:

Hi Guys,

Ok today all 6 books were stamped by all the necessary parties - I still however can not find any good information on what to do from here. I've reviewed these forums and ticketcombat.com (excellent resources and have been very hepful) - however I cant find any good information on what to do / expect from here.

Now that everyone has been served, how does one find out if the 11B is accepted or not? Is this something you have to argue for on the date of your trial or does your sworn statement and documents included in your 11B application do the job for you?

I am trying to figure out what to expect from here and what will happen on the trial date. Can someone PRETTY PLEASE shed some light on this? I've been scouring the Internet and Forums and I can not find a answer to this question - I really need to know whats next.

What will happen from here? What should I expect at Trial? I read some information that you are not supposed to enter a plea but to tell the court that you have an 11B application pending - if that's the case - what happens? Does the court send you a letter letting you know if your 11B is accepted?

PS: I would like to open a detailed thread about how I did the 11B application since I was given a bit of a different run around from each office - but also because I learned alto and would like to contribute back to these forums for the info I have taken, but I need to know what to do / prepare from here.

Hoping someone can help me out and answer this question.

Hey - how did it go? Didn't see an update!

Hi there,

Well, I physically dropped off all 4 documents and everything seemed to go OK, except that the order of offices as posted earlier is incorrect. The Provincial Offences Office at Edward St should be your LAST destination, not second last. Also, seems like they don't have or don't use "O" numbers anymore, they are called M for Motions.

Rob

Can I go in on behalf of my spouse to get her sworn statement signed by a Commissioner?

No. She has to swear the statement in front of the Commissioner. If she's not present, the Commissioner cannot verify that she is actually making the statement.

Was successful in court this morning. Here's how it went down...pretty simple, actually:

Got to the court around 8:45am, massive pre-trial line up. Didn't get to speak directly to the prosecutor, but I notice that she did have a copy of my Application. Instead, I had to speak to who I assume was her assistant or temp. I explained to him that I had filed a Charter argument, but he insisted that they didn't have it - so I had to stand my ground and pointedly say that his colleague had it in her hand.

Then he went on to my charge, 64 in a 40, and made some comment about me challenging something that's 34 over. This is when I got a bit upset with him, and said "that's 24, mate" - he didn't appreciate that, and the cop sitting on the bench beside him started laughing. He asked what my argument was, and I said right to a trial within a reasonable amount of time. In hindsight, I shouldn't have given him so much attitude.

I go into the courtroom and sat down with a ton of other people. People came and went (it was actually quite noisy and I really couldn't hear what was going on). Most plead guilty to a lesser charge, and only a few got off as the officer hadn't shown.

Then I get called up, state my name, and the prosecutor just proceeds to say that she had received my Charter argument, and due to the nature of the delay (a mix up at the Offences Office..not my fault), she recommends that the charge be withdrawn. JP says "you're free to go", and I walked out feeling like a King!

That's about it. Overall, if you can do your homework properly and get the procedure down, its well worth the effort and money (printing/binding) to file these, but since I work downtown, I had a huge advantage - most of these office visits (whether it be to gather info, request trials, or file the Application) were done at lunch or on break. I would seriously reconsider if I didn't work in the core.

Thanks to this site for all the great advice and information!

Cheers,

Rob

robbiedigital wrote:

This is when I got a bit upset with him, and said "that's 24, mate" - he didn't appreciate that, and the cop sitting on the bench beside him started laughing.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I wouldn't recommend saying something like that, but it must've been pretty funny.

Congratulations on your win.

Hi everyone,

Many thanks to diehard - I followed his "quick and simplified guide describes how to file an 11b" http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2952.html step by step - filled and served all parties. In my case (disobey sign) delay (caused by Crown) is 12 months and 26 days.

I am back from my first trial ever @ Toronto West Court and I looked very dumb after Judge looked at my "Notice of Application for stay of proceedings" and said: "Proceed".

I did not know what to do next and the judge said that I have to argue.

I have no idea what to say as I thought everything is described in the "Notice of Application for stay of proceedings".

Judge made a decision for the trial ajournment. The next trial date is scheduled in March of 2012.

Can somebody explain please what do I need to say after judge's word "proceed"?

Do I need to redo the "Notice of Application for stay of proceedings" or to make any amendment to it for the next trial date scheduled ?

Is 12 months and 26 days sufficient time to drop the case by Toronto West Court?

Thank you in advance,

l8tr

You have to explain why you filed the application, the circumstances of the case, and why you believe that the charge should be stayed, citing case law. You need to lay your case out for the JP. 12 months and 26 days should be enough but you need to explain to the JP why this is true for your case.

Go on to the CanLII website and look for 11B applications. Specifically look for the R. v. Rowan case and that should help you out.

Thank you for your response.

Basically, would it be sufficient for me just to state that:

1. My constitutional right under s. 11 (b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to be tried within a reasonable time has been infringed.

2. I am going to read in court (from Tab1 of Notice of Application for Stay of proceeding):

...Disobey sign on the ...st day of August 2010 contrary to the Highway Traffic Act Section 182(2)

Be stayed, pursuant to section 24 (1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and

Freedoms (hereinafter the "Charter").

THE GROUNDS OF THE APPLICATION ARE:

1.That my right to a fair trial within a reasonable time, as guaranteed by

s.11(b) of the Charter, has been infringed

2. That a stay of the proceedings is appropriate and just in the circumstances, as defined by s. 24 (1) of the Charter

3. I need to make a reference to R. v. Rowan case.

And all that above should "explain to the JP why this is true for your (my) case", should not?

By asking all these questions, I hope that it will be helpful for the other people (who can't afford a lawyer) to formulate its case in court "in proper legal language".

I also believe that the sentences (template) how to argue filed 11(b) in court by the applicant has to be added to a sticky note of this tread.

One more thing: Do I need to redo the "Notice of Application for stay of proceedings" or to make any amendment to it for the next trial date scheduled (Judge made a decision for the trial adjournment.) ?

Thank you.

I believe that you must justify why the delay has affected you. So come up with a good story.

Citing the Charter of Rights isn't enough.

I got a question about Step 5: Tell clerk that you would like your 4 copies of the Notice of Application sworn by a commissioner of oaths. (see screenshot below)

This part is missing from the Notice of Application for Stay of Proceedings template I downloaded. Is commissioner of oaths will insert it or I have to include into tab2 myself?

See my sample (tab 2).

thanks for posting the screenshot, because I didn't have that part in my tempate.

Also, I got two tickets at the same time and I had one courtdate for both charges.

Do I have to do all the paperwork for each ticket?

For these steps I understand it has to be in court:

1. Go to Ticket Office (sardine room).

2. Get into the big line to pick a number. Tell clerk that you are "filing an 11b".

3. He will give you a number, beginning with the letter O for "Other".

4. Wait, wait and wait until you are called

5. Tell clerk that you would like your 4 copies of the Notice of Application sworn by a commissioner of oaths. (see screenshot below)

6. If the clerk is a commissioner of oaths, then she will do that (most are). Otherwise she will call someone who is. Have a photo ID with you.

7. Go to Prosecutors office to serve them.

8. They will stamp the four copies and keep one.

9. Now its time to serve the Attorney General of Ontario and Attorney General of Canada

10. Go to a fax machine. (Beware Staple charges $1.5 per page for long distance!)

11. Fax notice of application to Attorney General of Ontario

12. Fax notice of application to Attorney General of Canada

13. Keep fax receipts!

14. Now its time to fill out four 16B Affidavit of Services, two for each Attorney. (see attached sample)

15. Go back to Ticket Office (sardine room).

16. Get into the big line to pick a new number. Tell clerk youre "filing an 11b". Youll get another "O" number.

17. Wait, wait and wait…

18. Tell clerk that you are serving the court. Show her the three Notices that you have.

19. She will stamp the three copies of the Notice of Application and keep one. The Court has been served.

20. Ask her youd like to have the 4 copies of the 16B Affidavit of Services sworn.

21. This step is important because you are swearing and proving that you have served the Attorney General of Ontario and Attorney General of Canada.

21. She will keep two copies with fax receipts and youll keep the other two.

Now if anyone can help, it'll be greatly appreciated.

As I'm far away from Toronto, can I have someone do this for me? (Family member that rep'd me in court?)

Alternatively, from what it looks like steps 11 and 12 require leaving the actual court room and returning after, is there anyway to prepare this prior to arriving or can I just return on a different day to complete the process?

From what I've read before, it looks like I have to actually go to my designated court house to complete all of this right? Can't complete it/any of it in my city?

Just looking to save time+money.

Thanks!

Does this 11b thing only work in Ontario? Or is it every province?

11B is a section of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It's valid in every province and territory

* BUT *

the procedures written in this thread work for courts in Ontario, and probably aren't the same ones that would be used in other provinces.

akarimov wrote:

thanks for posting the screenshot, because I didn't have that part in my tempate.

Also, I got two tickets at the same time and I had one courtdate for both charges.

Do I have to do all the paperwork for each ticket?

i have the exact same question

can both tickets be included in the same form?

______________________________

and also w.r.t http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic3881.html

can we re-write the form like this:

2. Jurisprudence - Copies of the Supreme Court and Ontario Court of Justice decisions - Askov, Morin & Andrade.

or add line another line

3. Jurisprudence - Copy of Ontario Court of Justice decision - Andrade.

______________________________

a quick question regarding the transcript if you've already had a trial. it doesn't appear we need to include the transcript with the application. i mean being present at the trial we can paraphrase what happened.

what is the significance of the transcript? why do we need the transcript from the old trial for the new trial?

is it to better help us write the 11b application?

clyrrad wrote:

Thanks Radar Identified - but how can we fax such a large document? More-over do we not need their stamp on all other copies of the 11B? I've made 6 copies following the guidelines on this thread, but the books are so large I dont see how we could fax it or get them to stamp all our other copies.

These are the guidelines i've been following:

The main points to remember are to:

1. Write your application for stay of proceeding and put it together as a document, which will serve as a motion for the constitutional question. Make six (6) copies and as you drop each one off (or have someone assist you in this regard) Ensure that you get all the applications stamped, and leave one with that person who stamped your application. The example I will use is in Toronto. I have prepared and signed off one application for stay of proceeding and I have made five (5) additional copies of it.

2. Serve it at the very latest, 15 days prior to the day that your trial is scheduled, to the Attorney General of Canada, Attorney General of Ontario, the Prosecutor at the Provincial Court where your trial is scheduled and to the Justice of the Peace, at the office where you applied for a court date to fight your ticket.

3. This is the method that you use while serving the application for stay document:

Make six (6) copies In Toronto, as an example, you would bring all six (6) copies of the application to the following

Places:

1. Department of Justice (Canada) (Ontario Regional Office) To serve the Attorney General of Canada Exchange Tower – located on 130 King St (just east of York St-on north side of King) Suite 3400, P.O. Box 36, Toronto, Ontario M5X 1K6 Go into elevator which travels to the 34th floor and get off with your six (6) copies and aks the receptionist to stamp all six (6) copies and leave him/her with one.The stamp will say "Service of a True Copy Admitted On – with the date" same as Ontarios Attorney General.

2. Now you have five (5) stamped copies and next you go to the Attorney General of Ontario They are located at 720 Bay Street (west side of Bay, north of Gerrard St.) in a building called the McMurtry-Scott building (named after two former Attorneys General of Ontario) The Attorney General is located on the 11th floor, but you will never get there, it is on constant "lock-down". You have to go to the phone in the corner of the lobby and phone and ask for a clerk from the "Constitutional branch" to come down and stamp your "Constitutional challenge". Wait someone will come down, have them stamp the other 5 documents and provide the clerk with one. Now you have four.

3. Next stop is the Ontario Court of Justice office, Provincial Offences Act – Toronto South Office located on the second floor of 137 Edward St (just east of University, 1 street north of Dundas St. W). You have 4 stamped copies of the application for stay. You drop one off here for the Justice of the Peace. Have the clerk stamp them all four, and take away three.

4. Last but not least – Old City Hall – 60 Queen St. W at the Prosecutions Office in the basement – room E 12. Take you last three copies, have the clerk stamp them all and leave one and take away two copies. You may need both on the day of your trial and may end up sharing them with the Prosecutor and/or Justice of the Peace.

So you can see from the directions we are to make 6 books and have them stamped by each office as proof that they've been served. Could you please clarify how this could be accomplished via fax? Thanks for your assistance.

Locations 3 and 4 need to be swapped. Ontario Court of Justice now wants to see the prosecutors stamp before they accept their copy. I've done 2 of these now it this order after turned away at 137 Edwards because I had not been to 60 queen yet.

I ended up including both tickets in one book and included R v. Andrade, but accidentally put the wrong date the offense was conducted in the first page (Notice of Application): instead of 2010 i put 2011; the sworn statement and ofc the ticket and trial notice have the right date.. hopefully that doesn`t screw up the application

I tried to submit my Affidavit of Service Form 16B to the Prosecutor`s Office, but they rejected it and advised they don`t need it and that it`s only for the courts

Spent $15 at Staples getting three books bound, and 30 minutes at home faxing 35 pages to both the Attorney General of Ontario & Canada. $2.50x2 for 137 Edward parking and $3.50 for 60 Queen parking, and full-day off work ... maybe $20 of gas driving back and forth from Bramption ... still cheaper than the $286 OTTLegal quoted

hi,

Thanks for the great guide. I been following it but I have a quick question.

I live in Markham near and I'm wonder does it matter which Ontario Court of Justice office, Provincial Offences Act Office that I go to? I got my ticket downtown but I don't want to drive all the way downtown to serve them can I just go to the Markham easy office?

Second question is can I also serve the Prosecution Office in the Markham East office or do I have to go to Old City Hall – 60 Queen St. W.

sy007 wrote:

I live in Markham near and I'm wonder does it matter which Ontario Court of Justice office, Provincial Offences Act Office that I go to? I got my ticket downtown but I don't want to drive all the way downtown to serve them can I just go to the Markham easy office?

Second question is can I also serve the Prosecution Office in the Markham East office or do I have to go to Old City Hall – 60 Queen St. W.

Aren't your two questions the same?

To request a date for trial after you got a ticket, you can go to any office.

With regards to filing an 11b, you have to serve the prosecution office where the trial will be held.

diehard wrote:

I finally headed to the Toronto East Court Office (1530 Markham Road) to submit my application.

1. Go to Ticket Office (sardine room).

2. Get into the big line to pick a number. Tell clerk that you are "filing an 11b".

3. He will give you a number, beginning with the letter O for "Other".

4. Wait, wait and wait until you are called

5. Tell clerk that you would like your 4 copies of the Notice of Application sworn by a commissioner of oaths. (see screenshot below)

6. If the clerk is a commissioner of oaths, then she will do that (most are). Otherwise she will call someone who is. Have a photo ID with you.

7. Go to Prosecutors office to serve them.

8. They will stamp the four copies and keep one.

9. Now its time to serve the Attorney General of Ontario and Attorney General of Canada

10. Go to a fax machine. (Beware Staple charges $1.5 per page for long distance!)

11. Fax notice of application to Attorney General of Ontario

12. Fax notice of application to Attorney General of Canada

13. Keep fax receipts!

14. Now its time to fill out four 16B Affidavit of Services, two for each Attorney. (see attached sample)

15. Go back to Ticket Office (sardine room).

16. Get into the big line to pick a new number. Tell clerk youre "filing an 11b". Youll get another "O" number.

17. Wait, wait and wait…

18. Tell clerk that you are serving the court. Show her the three Notices that you have.

19. She will stamp the three copies of the Notice of Application and keep one. The Court has been served.

20. Ask her youd like to have the 4 copies of the 16B Affidavit of Services sworn.

21. This step is important because you are swearing and proving that you have served the Attorney General of Ontario and Attorney General of Canada.

21. She will keep two copies with fax receipts and youll keep the other two.

Youre done.

Thanks for the reply diehard, but let me clarify. I already got my Trial Notice and I'm trying to file 11b. But according to your original post that you went to Toronto East Court Office (1530 Markham Road) to submit your 11b and server the court.

My trial is going to held at down town 60 Queen Street west. Does that mean I have to go down town to file my 11b?

sy007 wrote:

Thanks for the reply diehard, but let me clarify. I already got my Trial Notice and I'm trying to file 11b. But according to your original post that you went to Toronto East Court Office (1530 Markham Road) to submit your 11b and server the court.

My trial is going to held at down town 60 Queen Street west. Does that mean I have to go down town to file my 11b?

That is correct, you must file the 11b and serve the prosecutors and the court in the office where the trial will be held, ie, 60 queen street west.