Should I File 11b Again? Am I Being Tricked?

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Should I File 11b Again? Am I Being Tricked?

by: mike3000 on


Case: Speeding ticket, 59 in a 40 zone (Toronto). Court date was 9 months after offence date.

It was court day, I received the disclosure before the court day which consist of the typed notes of the officer and partial UltraLyte LR B manual (photocopied badly - hardly readable). I reported myself with the prosecutor before the court session began and I told him that I will not plea guilty with his offer and wished to go to trial.

** I sensed that he wasn't ready for trial.

Then he sent the officer to pull me out of the court (before the court began) to discuss the case and possible resolution. No agreeable resolution found.

The court session began, processing those easy ones who plea guilty. The prosecutor was not doing a good job, JP was mad with his organization skills. It was almost my turn, but prosecutor asked for brief recess.

He sent the officer to pull me out AGAIN. This time it's a bit fishy, the officer asked me "Were you represented by an agent? my answer: No"; "Were you the one who requested for Video/Voice Recording?" I was confused, I said I didn't request for that (I didn't even know there is such a thing available). We went back inside and the court session continued.

My turn is up, to my surprise, the Prosecutor said that I requested for a video/voice recording - Which I didn't. Obviously I was panicking and confused. I didn't expect this type of scene. I told the JP, I didn't request for it but if it's available, sure, I would like to have it. I asked a few questions, what is the video about? What is the voice recording about? They explained to me that it's the recording of the scene. At that point they aren't even sure there were any video but they are sure there is voice recording.

So, the prosecutor said such request will take 4 weeks and request to adjourn the trail. JP asked me if I want the video. I said Yes. At the end the new court date was set 5 more months later. In total the trial was 9 + 5 months = 14 months after the offence date. This to me, a delay that is no fault of me. So, I filed for 11b in the second court session (14 months).

I didn't receive the video before the 2nd court session. Instead, at the 2nd court session, the prosecutor (not the same one) "quietly" passed me the video disc. Obviously, I will complain when then pre-trial begins. But I didn't get a chance to complain about that as it didn't get that far. As I wasn't experience enough, while I was moving the case to stay with 11b, I only found out that the JP was requesting for TRANSCRIPTS of the previous court session to proof that it's no fault of me that the trail is delayed. So the JP granted me another 4 months to get the transcripts.

After the 2nd court session, I found out that the Transcript cost $45 per court session! That's obviously not worth the $ to pay for it. At my 3rd court session coming (18 months after), I will need 2 transcripts (1st & 2nd Court session) to proof my 11b case.

This to me seems like a trick the Prosecutors are playing, they knew I am inexperience; he first delayed the trial, with the officer tricking me into asking for a video disclosure. Now it seems like I caused the delay coz I asked for the disclosure (which I didn't, he forced me to request for it) and adjourned the trial. And he knew that if I file 11b, I will need to pay for costly transcripts.

Here is my 1st question after the long story: What should I do now before the 3rd court session? Should I file 11b again? if I do, I think I will need 2 transcripts , 2 x $45, which is obviously not worth it for a $65 ticket.

2nd question: Is there any way to fight 11b without the transcript?

3rd question: I shouldn't have accepted the video quietly or should I? I am thinking that I should have let her pass it to me in front of the JP.

4th question: in the video, the officer wasn't wearing a safety yellow vest. Do I have any chance in that?

Any direction would be appreciated.

Thank you,


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by: iFly55 on

Question 1

How much does this ticket actually cost you? Will a +10km/h or +19km/h conviction on your driving record increase your insurance premiums? How much will you be paying in additional premiums over the next 3 years? You'll have to compare the opportunity cost between 11b transcripts + your time in court + preparations/research and insurance premiums.

Example, State Farm gives drivers a -10% discount for being conviction free. For each minor ticket they get +10% premium increase; if you get 3 minor tickets in 3 years your policy gets cancelled. First minor ticket your premiums increase +20%, you can do the math from there.

Question 2

No. You're arguing the first adjournment was not your fault, you have to prove it. The only way to do this is with court transcripts. The second adjournment appears to be your fault because on the record it looks like it's for a transcript adjournment. However, it's actually a disclosure adjournment where you didn't have time to review the video disc.

Question 3

I believe you rushed into the 11b too quickly before resolving disclosure matters. As long as you stated on the record that you just received the video disc that date, and needed more time to review it in order to answer the charges and mount a defence; the adjournment would have been the crown's fault, because they didn't give you enough time to look at it

Question 4

No. Officer can be wearing Pink Camo pants, it's completely irrelevant to your speeding charge. The elements required to secure a S128 Speeding Conviction in Ontario does not require the officer wears a Yellow Safety Vest.

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