In some cases, it takes too long for the Crown to bring a charge against a defendant to trial. If your charge has taken too long to come to trial, you can stop the proceedings by "filing an 11B." This is filing paperwork to bring a motion at your trial, where you essentially say, "my rights to a speedy trial have been violated, and I want the case stopped." It is called an 11B because section 11B of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees you the right to a speedy trial. You can't just show up in court and say "this took too long to come to trial." You MUST file the paperwork. There is a lot of good, useful information out there about how to file an 11B. Generally, it must have been at least 11 months between the time you filed your ticket with the courthouse and the proceeding of trial. Keep in mind, though, the delays have to be attributable to the Crown. If you had a trial scheduled at 8 months, and then asked for a re-schedule because you were sick and the new time was 12 months after the ticket was filed, that is only considered "8 months." If, though, you asked for disclosure, and they didn't have it ready, that delay is "attributable to the Crown," and then it would be "12 months." In other words, you can't just keep asking for adjournments until it goes over 11 months and then file an 11B (unless it's the Crown's fault, e.g. no disclosure). You can file an 11B yourself, or you can hire a paralegal to do it for you. They both have their pros and cons, so you need to decide what is right for you. Be forewarned that filing this yourself requires a lot of work, and you still have to be prepared to present an argument in court. If you choose to file the 11B yourself, you'll need to do the following to get started: - Find your ticket - Find Notice of Trial - Gather any other court records (e.g. transcripts if you had a date in court already, etc) - Locate a Commissioner of Oaths or Notary Public Then the fun begins. You have to determine if you have a reasonable case for delay of trial. We already discussed the time line above. That comes from two precedent-setting cases, R. v. Askov and R. v. Morin cases. You should review them. Yes, it is a lot of reading! This website has some good information on how to put the paperwork together: http://fightyourtickets.ca/tickets/appl ... oceedings/ Some threads cover this extensively, such as this one: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic2808.html diehard, in the post below, covers the steps to follow. Keep in mind that the clerks have very little training and sometimes you need to guide them, step-by-step, through what you are doing. For example, when I had to file the Affidavits of Service, it took almost eight minutes of going back and forth with the clerk before finally a Supervisor stepped in, stamped the forms and said "okay you're good to go." Just be patient. Stand your ground, but be patient, when filing. The exception to the filing process mentioned by diehard is the suffocating, depressing nightmare you will encounter at Old City Hall in Toronto. For a quick guide to that, please see this website: http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/howtofile_harder.php You need to serve the following parties with the 11B application at least 15 days (preferably 20+ days) prior to your court date: - Attorney-General of Canada - Attorney-General of Ontario - Prosecutor's Office handling your case - Court where your case will be heard You need proof that you have served each party with the application. The Attorneys-General can be served by fax; you will need to retain the fax receipts and also swear an Affidavit of Service (form 16B) that you served them. The Prosecutor's Office and Court should be served in person. For details on how to do this, please see diehard's post below.
Hi All, Wanted to share a link to the most recent update on the R. v. Vellone appeal being brought forward by the Crown. The judge has ruled to allow the appeal, concluding that the judge in the previous Vellone appeal erred. You can find it here: http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/20 ... ca785.html Interestingly, it looks as if though it may not be necessary to serve the Attorney General of Canada as HTA and POA offenses are an Ontario matter. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds. Any input is appreciated!
Hi All,
Wanted to share a link to the most recent update on the R. v. Vellone appeal being brought forward by the Crown. The judge has ruled to allow the appeal, concluding that the judge in the previous Vellone appeal erred.
Interestingly, it looks as if though it may not be necessary to serve the Attorney General of Canada as HTA and POA offenses are an Ontario matter. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
Quick question, I'm trying to plan out whether I need to take the whole day off work, how long did this process take for everyone? I'll be at Old City hall. Thanks
Quick question,
I'm trying to plan out whether I need to take the whole day off work, how long did this process take for everyone? I'll be at Old City hall.
Take the whole day off work. It's a process similar to pulling teeth.
Take the whole day off work. It's a process similar to pulling teeth.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Thanks for the response. Do you/anyone know whether there's been success of filing for a stay via fax method? Coming in FAR from Toronto, so if I can somehow pull it off with a decent chance at Old City Hall that would be preferred....
Thanks for the response. Do you/anyone know whether there's been success of filing for a stay via fax method?
Coming in FAR from Toronto, so if I can somehow pull it off with a decent chance at Old City Hall that would be preferred....
Also, how important is it to have the original notice of trial along with transcripts? I already had my court date adjourned due to lack of disclosure, however I've seemed to have temporarily misplaced (going to search for it still) the notice of trial. I also didn't request any transcripts from the first hearing since I didn't thought it was needed until now. Figures.... Thanks in advance
Also, how important is it to have the original notice of trial along with transcripts?
I already had my court date adjourned due to lack of disclosure, however I've seemed to have temporarily misplaced (going to search for it still) the notice of trial. I also didn't request any transcripts from the first hearing since I didn't thought it was needed until now. Figures....
Alright so just an update: a paralegal is willing to file an 11b for me but the process is all done through fax? Is this a viable option? Please try to respond asap as I need to know tonight!
Alright so just an update: a paralegal is willing to file an 11b for me but the process is all done through fax?
Is this a viable option?
Please try to respond asap as I need to know tonight!
Thanks for the helpful information! Now, I understand the court date could be rescheduled due to lack of "Disclosure". But, how long in advance should you request the disclosure, so the prosecutor cannot argue that you gave a short notice on purpose to delay the trial? Would you request the disclosure by mail/in person/by fax? Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful information!
Now, I understand the court date could be rescheduled due to lack of "Disclosure". But, how long in advance should you request the disclosure, so the prosecutor cannot argue that you gave a short notice on purpose to delay the trial?
Would you request the disclosure by mail/in person/by fax?
Who do you give the two binded copies to? the court and the prosecutor? or do you hold on to a binded copy and give it to the judge on the day of the trial? any help would be greatly appreciated.
Who do you give the two binded copies to? the court and the prosecutor? or do you hold on to a binded copy and give it to the judge on the day of the trial? any help would be greatly appreciated.
you give one of the copies to the courts (where you initially filed your tickets), they will then give it to the judge on the day of trial
Hoodedvillan wrote:
Who do you give the two binded copies to? the court and the prosecutor? or do you hold on to a binded copy and give it to the judge on the day of the trial? any help would be greatly appreciated.
you give one of the copies to the courts (where you initially filed your tickets), they will then give it to the judge on the day of trial
If you're talking about the 2 bound copies of the 11(b) Charter motion you serve one on the prosecutor but then you still have to file the other one with the court IN ADVANCE of the trial - not on the day of.
If you're talking about the 2 bound copies of the 11(b) Charter motion you serve one on the prosecutor but then you still have to file the other one with the court IN ADVANCE of the trial - not on the day of.
I was wondering the other day, if you get two tickets by the same officer on the same day, and if you are two file an 11(b) motion after receiving the court date, is it one procedure (set of documents) for both tickets? Or do you have to file both tickets separately?
I was wondering the other day, if you get two tickets by the same officer on the same day, and if you are two file an 11(b) motion after receiving the court date, is it one procedure (set of documents) for both tickets? Or do you have to file both tickets separately?
Attended my trial today after filing 11B and won! Will share my experience to help others to prepare for next steps after filing 11B. Offence: Red light - fail to stop Offence date: Feb 11, 2012 Trial date: Jan 10, 2013 Length: 11 months less a day In court: Cop is here. 1/2 hour before allotted time, prosecutor talked to all the accused one-by-one and offer everyone an identical deal - $60 and no demerit points. However, when I came up and told the prosecutor my name, she just highlighted my name to indicate I am present, and ask me to sit down and wait. I am the only one she did not make an offer. After all the guilty pleads are done (only 30 minutes after it started, an full room of 20+ people are done, each took less than a minute), I am the last one to go up. I went up, state my name, then prosecutor said she is withdrawing the charge. So it seems like the prosecutor will automatically withdraw charges if you file the 11b paperwork properly. Based on my interpretation of R. v. Andrade, if you file your notice of intention to appear in court within 15 days as required, then you can calculate institution delay: a) Inherent time requirements of case: 1 month b) Accused delay: the number of days you took to file your notice of intention to appear in court c) Institutional delay: trial date - offence date - a) - b) If c >= 9 months, you have a case for 11b. In my case, c = 9.5 months, and I filed 11b paperwork 1 month before trial date.
Attended my trial today after filing 11B and won! Will share my experience to help others to prepare for next steps after filing 11B.
Offence: Red light - fail to stop
Offence date: Feb 11, 2012
Trial date: Jan 10, 2013
Length: 11 months less a day
In court:
Cop is here.
1/2 hour before allotted time, prosecutor talked to all the accused one-by-one and offer everyone an identical deal - $60 and no demerit points. However, when I came up and told the prosecutor my name, she just highlighted my name to indicate I am present, and ask me to sit down and wait. I am the only one she did not make an offer.
After all the guilty pleads are done (only 30 minutes after it started, an full room of 20+ people are done, each took less than a minute), I am the last one to go up.
I went up, state my name, then prosecutor said she is withdrawing the charge.
So it seems like the prosecutor will automatically withdraw charges if you file the 11b paperwork properly.
Based on my interpretation of R. v. Andrade, if you file your notice of intention to appear in court within 15 days as required, then you can calculate institution delay:
a) Inherent time requirements of case: 1 month
b) Accused delay: the number of days you took to file your notice of intention to appear in court
c) Institutional delay: trial date - offence date - a) - b)
If c >= 9 months, you have a case for 11b. In my case, c = 9.5 months, and I filed 11b paperwork 1 month before trial date.
Congratulations. You were within the period, but I believe 11 months is a bit too short, judge could have rejected the 11b motion. Anyway, what court office was this?
vincci wrote:
Attended my trial today after filing 11B and won! Will share my experience to help others to prepare for next steps after filing 11B.
Offence: Red light - fail to stop
Offence date: Feb 11, 2012
Trial date: Jan 10, 2013
Length: 11 months less a day
Congratulations. You were within the period, but I believe 11 months is a bit too short, judge could have rejected the 11b motion.
In Andrade's case the superior court allowed stay of proceedings for 11 months 4 days and 11 months 28 days. Thus 11 months is safe now for the purposes of 11(b)
In Andrade's case the superior court allowed stay of proceedings for 11 months 4 days and 11 months 28 days. Thus 11 months is safe now for the purposes of 11(b)
My delay is 11 months and 3 days and I am planning to make the application either this week or next week. My trial is on 5th March. Quick question: 1. You said that you filed on the basis of Andrade. Did you attach the case of Akov and Morin? 2. Which court house was it?
vincci wrote:
Attended my trial today after filing 11B and won! Will share my experience to help others to prepare for next steps after filing 11B.
Offence: Red light - fail to stop
Offence date: Feb 11, 2012
Trial date: Jan 10, 2013
Length: 11 months less a day
In court:
Cop is here.
1/2 hour before allotted time, prosecutor talked to all the accused one-by-one and offer everyone an identical deal - $60 and no demerit points. However, when I came up and told the prosecutor my name, she just highlighted my name to indicate I am present, and ask me to sit down and wait. I am the only one she did not make an offer.
After all the guilty pleads are done (only 30 minutes after it started, an full room of 20+ people are done, each took less than a minute), I am the last one to go up.
I went up, state my name, then prosecutor said she is withdrawing the charge.
So it seems like the prosecutor will automatically withdraw charges if you file the 11b paperwork properly.
Based on my interpretation of R. v. Andrade, if you file your notice of intention to appear in court within 15 days as required, then you can calculate institution delay:
a) Inherent time requirements of case: 1 month
b) Accused delay: the number of days you took to file your notice of intention to appear in court
c) Institutional delay: trial date - offence date - a) - b)
If c >= 9 months, you have a case for 11b. In my case, c = 9.5 months, and I filed 11b paperwork 1 month before trial date.
My delay is 11 months and 3 days and I am planning to make the application either this week or next week. My trial is on 5th March. Quick question:
1. You said that you filed on the basis of Andrade. Did you attach the case of Akov and Morin?
Let me start by saying thank you so much for all of the awesome information on this website!!! Really, most of us would not be able to do any of this stuff without sites like this, and I found this one particularly helpful. So, I just wanted to contribute to this board by sharing my own experience. I won't have an outcome to share for a few weeks, but once I have my court date I will absolutely let everyone know if I was successful! I basically ended up using primarily the approach suggested here, but tweaked to fit my case (e.g. parking ticket; trial in Toronto at 70 Centre St., which is only courtrooms and only for parking tickets, as I understand it...no real clerks or anything - though a bunch of really nice, pretty funny security guards who wished me well and tried to help me find a clerk), and my complete lack of time or money (e.g. an extra fax and one less "house call" to serve paperwork). So, here are the steps I took, once I had my application ready to go: 1. Since trial is at 70 Centre St. and there are no proper clerks there, I went to 137 Edward St. (in hopes of avoiding Queen St. altogether), 2nd floor. Waited at first window (information window, I believe), and told them I was filing an 11b. They gave me a number starting with "M" for motions. I waited, and when I was called to the window, I told them I needed 3 copies of my Notice of Application... sworn. 2. Faxed my application to Attorney General of Canada, Attorney General of Ontario and to the prosecutors office at 60 Queen St. (416-338-6986). 3. Returned to 137 Edward St., and repeated process of going to information window, stating I was filing an 11b, and getting an "M" number. Waited and waited. 4. Swore and signed 6 copies of 16F affidavits, 2 copies for each of the 3 faxes sent. Then gave them one of my 3 copies of the application (which they stamped and kept), along with one copy of each of the three 16Fs, and a copy of each of the 3 fax receipts. Then they stamped my other 2 copies of the sworn application, which I took back with me, along with my copies of the 3 fax receipts and the 3 sworn 16Fs. All told, I saved myself 3 personal visits to the Attorney Generals offices, and Queen St. I saved myself $30 on faxes by walking into various small businesses in my neighbourhood and explaining that I had "gotten myself into a bit of a pickle" (i.e. not realizing what was involved in filing an 11b), until someone took pity on me and sent the faxes for me! I did tell them that I hoped that my doing all of this would in some small way contribute to their ability to fight their parking tickets in the future (e.g. taking up court time, helping establish our 11b rights in similar cases, etc.), should they need to. :lol: Other notes: -My original court date was just a few days over a year from the offence date. -I did get an adjournment so I could file all of this paperwork, and I did not request transcripts from the first date, but as advised on the other site I will say something to the effect of "your Worship, I do not have the transcripts, but I was there, and I am happy to swear to what happened, if this would please the Court." -Also, I did not include the actual previous cases (Morin, Askov, Andrade), but did include a tab for Jurisprudence in which I stated: The following is the legal basis for the constitutional question: According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom, Section 11(b), any person charged with an offence has the right to be tried within a reasonable time. The right to have charges stayed when section 11(b) is violated has been supported by the Supreme Court of Canada (R, v, Askov, [1990] 2 S.C.R. 1199; R. v. Morin, [1992] 1 S.C.R. 771). Furthermore, delays of just over 11 months in "minor offences" have been deemed unreasonable and to be in violation of Section 11(b), mandating a stay of proceedings (R. ex rel City of Toronto v. Andrade, 2011 ONCJ 470). This seems to me to satisfy the legal requirement of providing a legal basis for my constitutional question, though in retrospect perhaps I should have left out the actual words "...constitutional question" since I didnt file a 4F. Also, probably should have picked up on the "s" missing from the end of "...Rights and Freedom." :roll: Should they bother me about not including the cases, I would simply respond that I was certain they would be very familiar with the cases, and I truly apologize if this is not the case, but hope that the citations were helpful, if they needed to look them up." Too sarcastic? :P I dont know – but Im not sure I care anymore...this is so much work, its crazy (though in all fairness most of the work came from having to figure it all out)! -I did not have my ticket, as I did not request disclose (didnt realize I should until it was too close to the date)...they, of course, have it, as they take it when you file for a court date in the first place, leaving you with just the intention to appear slip. I did include both notices for both court dates. So, my date is at the end of April – I will update as to how it works out, so that others will know if my approach was successful (e.g. faxing prosecutors office instead of going in; not having transcripts, etc.).
Let me start by saying thank you so much for all of the awesome information on this website!!! Really, most of us would not be able to do any of this stuff without sites like this, and I found this one particularly helpful.
So, I just wanted to contribute to this board by sharing my own experience. I won't have an outcome to share for a few weeks, but once I have my court date I will absolutely let everyone know if I was successful! I basically ended up using primarily the approach suggested here, but tweaked to fit my case (e.g. parking ticket; trial in Toronto at 70 Centre St., which is only courtrooms and only for parking tickets, as I understand it...no real clerks or anything - though a bunch of really nice, pretty funny security guards who wished me well and tried to help me find a clerk), and my complete lack of time or money (e.g. an extra fax and one less "house call" to serve paperwork). So, here are the steps I took, once I had my application ready to go:
1. Since trial is at 70 Centre St. and there are no proper clerks there, I went to 137 Edward St. (in hopes of avoiding Queen St. altogether), 2nd floor. Waited at first window (information window, I believe), and told them I was filing an 11b. They gave me a number starting with "M" for motions. I waited, and when I was called to the window, I told them I needed 3 copies of my Notice of Application... sworn.
2. Faxed my application to Attorney General of Canada, Attorney General of Ontario and to the prosecutors office at 60 Queen St. (416-338-6986).
3. Returned to 137 Edward St., and repeated process of going to information window, stating I was filing an 11b, and getting an "M" number. Waited and waited.
4. Swore and signed 6 copies of 16F affidavits, 2 copies for each of the 3 faxes sent. Then gave them one of my 3 copies of the application (which they stamped and kept), along with one copy of each of the three 16Fs, and a copy of each of the 3 fax receipts. Then they stamped my other 2 copies of the sworn application, which I took back with me, along with my copies of the 3 fax receipts and the 3 sworn 16Fs.
All told, I saved myself 3 personal visits to the Attorney Generals offices, and Queen St. I saved myself $30 on faxes by walking into various small businesses in my neighbourhood and explaining that I had "gotten myself into a bit of a pickle" (i.e. not realizing what was involved in filing an 11b), until someone took pity on me and sent the faxes for me! I did tell them that I hoped that my doing all of this would in some small way contribute to their ability to fight their parking tickets in the future (e.g. taking up court time, helping establish our 11b rights in similar cases, etc.), should they need to.
Other notes:
-My original court date was just a few days over a year from the offence date.
-I did get an adjournment so I could file all of this paperwork, and I did not request transcripts from the first date, but as advised on the other site I will say something to the effect of "your Worship, I do not have the transcripts, but I was there, and I am happy to swear to what happened, if this would please the Court."
-Also, I did not include the actual previous cases (Morin, Askov, Andrade), but did include a tab for Jurisprudence in which I stated:
The following is the legal basis for the constitutional question:
According to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedom, Section 11(b), any person charged with an offence has the right to be tried within a reasonable time. The right to have charges stayed when section 11(b) is violated has been supported by the Supreme Court of Canada (R, v, Askov, [1990] 2 S.C.R. 1199; R. v. Morin, [1992] 1 S.C.R. 771). Furthermore, delays of just over 11 months in "minor offences" have been deemed unreasonable and to be in violation of Section 11(b), mandating a stay of proceedings (R. ex rel City of Toronto v. Andrade, 2011 ONCJ 470).
This seems to me to satisfy the legal requirement of providing a legal basis for my constitutional question, though in retrospect perhaps I should have left out the actual words "...constitutional question" since I didnt file a 4F. Also, probably should have picked up on the "s" missing from the end of "...Rights and Freedom." Should they bother me about not including the cases, I would simply respond that I was certain they would be very familiar with the cases, and I truly apologize if this is not the case, but hope that the citations were helpful, if they needed to look them up." Too sarcastic? I dont know – but Im not sure I care anymore...this is so much work, its crazy (though in all fairness most of the work came from having to figure it all out)!
-I did not have my ticket, as I did not request disclose (didnt realize I should until it was too close to the date)...they, of course, have it, as they take it when you file for a court date in the first place, leaving you with just the intention to appear slip. I did include both notices for both court dates.
So, my date is at the end of April – I will update as to how it works out, so that others will know if my approach was successful (e.g. faxing prosecutors office instead of going in; not having transcripts, etc.).
I have a thread here that I need help with please. http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... tml#p31564 When filing an 11B, can a cover letter be added to cite all the delays? Also - where is the latest template for an 11B please.
I have a thread here that I need help with please.
Would appreciate any help please. Thanks! You should include all the delays in your sworn statement. Take a look at the OP's sample 11b app: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf
cessnabmw wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
I have a thread here that I need help with please.
Would appreciate any help please. Thanks! You should include all the delays in your sworn statement. Take a look at the OP's sample 11b app: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf Great!!! Thank you so much for help in this thread and my other one. Will use this sample to build mine. Where can I get the word or versions, or that I can edit to suit my case?
iFly55 wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
I have a thread here that I need help with please.
Great!!! Thank you so much for help in this thread and my other one. Will use this sample to build mine. Where can I get the word or versions, or that I can edit to suit my case?
I wanted to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I just patterend a lot of my 11b after this example and some other assistance from others. I wanted to share the ease I had in submitting the motion today to help others. I attended the Toronto East (Markham Rd.) office and followed the following steps: 1.) Prior to leaving home, I served the Attorney General of Ontario & Attorney General of Canada via fax (as I was told by both the Prosecutor's Office/General Toronto Ticket line that this was fine and would significantly cut down on more trips/etc.) 2.) Arrived at the Court Admin office and explained to the clerk I was filing an 11b. I received an "M" ticket for motions/court appointments. She asked if I had served the prosecutors office yet. I advised NO and she confirmed that I should be "sworn" in first prior to doing that. 3.) The clerk took my 4 copies of the application and "swore" me in and signed them all. She reviewed my fax confirmations that both Attorney Generals had received my faxes and then signed the affidavits of service for them. 4.) She then signed & "swore" in all the documents & sent me to the prosecutors office to serve them. 5.) I served the prosecutor's office and they stamped all of my applications. They advised no stamping or review of the affidavits was required. She advised that was my responsibility to provide that on court day if it was necessary. The prosecutor's office kept one copy of the application. 6.) I returned downstairs to see the same clerk again. She keep one copy of the application, one copy of proof of fax to both Attorney General's and one copy of the affidavits to the Attorney General's. That's it! In court in 3 weeks and hoping this is successful. I'll attempt to check back in and let you all know.
I wanted to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I just patterend a lot of my 11b after this example and some other assistance from others. I wanted to share the ease I had in submitting the motion today to help others. I attended the Toronto East (Markham Rd.) office and followed the following steps:
1.) Prior to leaving home, I served the Attorney General of Ontario & Attorney General of Canada via fax (as I was told by both the Prosecutor's Office/General Toronto Ticket line that this was fine and would significantly cut down on more trips/etc.)
2.) Arrived at the Court Admin office and explained to the clerk I was filing an 11b. I received an "M" ticket for motions/court appointments. She asked if I had served the prosecutors office yet. I advised NO and she confirmed that I should be "sworn" in first prior to doing that.
3.) The clerk took my 4 copies of the application and "swore" me in and signed them all. She reviewed my fax confirmations that both Attorney Generals had received my faxes and then signed the affidavits of service for them.
4.) She then signed & "swore" in all the documents & sent me to the prosecutors office to serve them.
5.) I served the prosecutor's office and they stamped all of my applications. They advised no stamping or review of the affidavits was required. She advised that was my responsibility to provide that on court day if it was necessary. The prosecutor's office kept one copy of the application.
6.) I returned downstairs to see the same clerk again. She keep one copy of the application, one copy of proof of fax to both Attorney General's and one copy of the affidavits to the Attorney General's.
That's it! In court in 3 weeks and hoping this is successful. I'll attempt to check back in and let you all know.
As promised, I am happy to report that my 11b charter application was accepted by the judge. The prosecutor, despite knowing her argument was likely to fail still wanted to argue it before the justice. The justice recognized that my 21 month delay was more like 17 months and that the majority of the delay could and should be attributed to the prosecution and that they had a duty to try me in a reasonable time frame. The prosecutor argued again that they wanted me to appear a 5th time and spend money to order transcripts. I informed the justice this was my 4th appearance and was encouraged by the previous justice to pursue this motion. He noted that this delay was totally unfair and I won!!! The justice did advise that the Morin & Askov case law could be deemed not applicable but did attribute them as serving a purpose in this matter amongst many other matters to show this delay was not warranted. All I can say, keep up the fight, document everything and make sure you do your due diligence to request disclosure promptly and request court dates promptly and don't go for unnecessary delays.
As promised, I am happy to report that my 11b charter application was accepted by the judge. The prosecutor, despite knowing her argument was likely to fail still wanted to argue it before the justice. The justice recognized that my 21 month delay was more like 17 months and that the majority of the delay could and should be attributed to the prosecution and that they had a duty to try me in a reasonable time frame. The prosecutor argued again that they wanted me to appear a 5th time and spend money to order transcripts. I informed the justice this was my 4th appearance and was encouraged by the previous justice to pursue this motion. He noted that this delay was totally unfair and I won!!!
The justice did advise that the Morin & Askov case law could be deemed not applicable but did attribute them as serving a purpose in this matter amongst many other matters to show this delay was not warranted. All I can say, keep up the fight, document everything and make sure you do your due diligence to request disclosure promptly and request court dates promptly and don't go for unnecessary delays.
Would appreciate any help please. Thanks! You should include all the delays in your sworn statement. Take a look at the OP's sample 11b app: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b? TIA!
iFly55 wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
cessnabmw wrote:
I have a thread here that I need help with please.
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown. You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada. You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post.
bill_097 wrote:
Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b?
TIA!
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown.
You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada.
You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post.
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown. You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada. You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post. Thanks for the reply. So for faxing, could the below be done: 1- I fax one copy to the Attorney-General of Ontario and one copy to the Attorney-General of Canada. 2- Keep the fax receipts. 3- Go to the Prosecutors and have them served. 4- Have them stamp 4 copies and keep one. 5- Go to waiting room/line up for clerks. 6- Have the Court served. 7- Bring two 16B Affidavits of Service (one for each fax I sent to the attorneys-general) to clerk. 8- Have Affidavits of Service sworn on with clerk keeping one copy each with the fax receipts. Thanks again.
iFly55 wrote:
bill_097 wrote:
Would transcripts be required or is just noting the delays sufficient? Also, how does one fax the 11b?
TIA!
Transcripts will be required for previous appearances in court; you're better off submitting the 11b application in person to the courts and to the crown.
You can however fax it to the attorney generals of Ontario & Canada.
You have to use a fax machine, you can do this anywhere: Staples, Kinkos & library. Make sure you print a fax receipt, and then fill out 16B Affidavit of Services and swear to a 'Commissioner of Oath'. There are detailed instructions in this thread's first post.
Thanks for the reply.
So for faxing, could the below be done:
1- I fax one copy to the Attorney-General of Ontario and one copy to the Attorney-General of Canada.
2- Keep the fax receipts.
3- Go to the Prosecutors and have them served.
4- Have them stamp 4 copies and keep one.
5- Go to waiting room/line up for clerks.
6- Have the Court served.
7- Bring two 16B Affidavits of Service (one for each fax I sent to the attorneys-general) to clerk.
8- Have Affidavits of Service sworn on with clerk keeping one copy each with the fax receipts.
I have to submit a s.7 'disclosure not received' Charter challenge. So I can use the basic format of the StayPDF.pdf in the OP (I found the original) but just remove references to Askin/Morin and replace with Stinchcombe, replace references to 11(b) with 7, and include copies of the requests for disclosure?
I have to submit a s.7 'disclosure not received' Charter challenge. So I can use the basic format of the StayPDF.pdf in the OP (I found the original) but just remove references to Askin/Morin and replace with Stinchcombe, replace references to 11(b) with 7, and include copies of the requests for disclosure?
Normally the remedy for 'disclosure not received' is not a stay; the remedy is that you get disclosure. What items did you put in your disclosure request? What has the prosecution given you so far?
Normally the remedy for 'disclosure not received' is not a stay; the remedy is that you get disclosure.
What items did you put in your disclosure request? What has the prosecution given you so far?
o a full copy of the police officers notes; o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence); o a typed version of any hand written notes; o witness will say statements; o witness statements; o any statements made by the defendant; o copies of the original notes of such statements; and o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information. Absolutely nothing
iFly55 wrote:
What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officers notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
o a full copy of the police officers notes; o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence); o a typed version of any hand written notes; o witness will say statements; o witness statements; o any statements made by the defendant; o copies of the original notes of such statements; and o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information. Absolutely nothing What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case.
Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:
What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officers notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
What has the prosecution given you so far?
Absolutely nothing
What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case.
o a full copy of the police officers notes; o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence); o a typed version of any hand written notes; o witness will say statements; o witness statements; o any statements made by the defendant; o copies of the original notes of such statements; and o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information. Absolutely nothing What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case. I understand. It's just a generic list full of everything. However I have been in contact with this prosecutor's office for a previous charge with the same form and they were forthcoming with information then. This case is about a 109 in an 80 charge. Court is on Halloween.
daggx wrote:
Millstone wrote:
iFly55 wrote:
What items did you put in your disclosure request?
o a full copy of the police officers notes;
o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
o a typed version of any hand written notes;
o witness will say statements;
o witness statements;
o any statements made by the defendant;
o copies of the original notes of such statements; and
o the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.
What has the prosecution given you so far?
Absolutely nothing
What was the original charge? If this is just a regular traffic ticket then there are a number of things on that list that won't exist. However they still at least owe you a copy of the officer's notes, so you should be able to get those and then have your court date rescheduled so that you will have time to review them and build a case.
I understand. It's just a generic list full of everything. However I have been in contact with this prosecutor's office for a previous charge with the same form and they were forthcoming with information then. This case is about a 109 in an 80 charge. Court is on Halloween.
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Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
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Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
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Re: How to file an 11B
Should they bother me about not including the cases, I would simply respond that I was certain they would be very familiar with the cases, and I truly apologize if this is not the case, but hope that the citations were helpful, if they needed to look them up." Too sarcastic? 
I dont know – but Im not sure I care anymore...this is so much work, its crazy (though in all fairness most of the work came from having to figure it all out)!