It was November 8, 2009 morning around 6:10am in the morning I was driving (Two line road) . It was dark early morning around 6:10am, also it was raining on and off and the road was wet. Plus the road was under construction with construction equipment like pylons were piled up to the right side of the road . I was not speeding and was driving within the limit of 60km/h where I got involved into an accident. The accident happened when the vehicle in front of me took a sudden sharp break/stop from no where in the middle of the road. When I saw this I tried to take a sudden break too, but I couldnt even though I had enough distance from the vehicle, my car slide and hit the vehicle in front of me. Luckily, nothing append to the vehicle or driver in front of me, not even a single scratch, but my car was damaged. I would like to mention that to avoid the accident, I tried to change my lane to the left but wasnt safe to do since it would result to another accident due to the arrival of another vehicle on the left line from beyond. Couldnt avoid the accident by turning to the right, since there were construction equipments, the curve and the side walk for possibly injuring pedestrian(s) . According the driver of the vehicle in front of me, he took sudden break because of the vehicle in front of him hit the Pylon and runaway and the pylon dropped in front of his car. After accident we called the police and provided him with the information mentioned above and he issued me the highway act 130 careless driving ticket of $325.00, Although he wasnt there when accident happend. I took the ticket to the court to stand for a trial and prove that I am not guilty for the charges. The court admin mentioned to me that they will send me a letter to when to appear to the court. Now I am waiting for the date to come. Not too sure if this is the actual trial or my first meeting/appearance with crown & prosecutors to make deal or no deal? If this is my first appearance can I ask the crown if the police or the witness (the driver of the car I hit) is there before I meet with the prosecutor. Also dont know when and at what point can I request for the trail, before or after when the prosecutor offer his deal? When can I request for discloser form? Please give me some advise what to do? What % chances do I have if the charges are going to get dropped Any suggestion or advise is most welcome Many thanks in advance
If they dont provide disclosure its not your fault. You must bring proof that you have requested it. Hopfully you sent registered mail and have the signature reciept for each time you sent request. You should at the very least get an adjournment for another court date. This will be the fault of the crown, and if the delay from the time you were charged is too long, you can file for an 11b charter or rights violation. you still have a few months though so you may still recieve the package. If its too close to the trial or they give it to you at the trial, you should still be able to have it adjourned to be able to review it and propery defend yourself.
If they dont provide disclosure its not your fault. You must bring proof that you have requested it. Hopfully you sent registered mail and have the signature reciept for each time you sent request.
You should at the very least get an adjournment for another court date. This will be the fault of the crown, and if the delay from the time you were charged is too long, you can file for an 11b charter or rights violation.
you still have a few months though so you may still recieve the package. If its too close to the trial or they give it to you at the trial, you should still be able to have it adjourned to be able to review it and propery defend yourself.
I have received the disclosure. Here is the content of the police officer notes: Both the drivers advise V2 (the driver in front of me) stopped for the traffic driver in front of him strike construction cone. V2 stopped suddenly, V1 (I am the driver) strike V2 from rear, No injuries. The officer statement is not accurate. The driver in front of me (V2) took a sudden sharp stop from no where in the middle of the road. The road wasnt busy. The officer in Motor Vehicle Accident Report also indicated that the V2 slows for traffic which is not true. V2e took a sudden sharp stop in the middle of the road. Officer also indicated that the V2 speed at the time was 5Km/h and V1 was 50km/h. The officer wasnt there how could he calculate our speeds. (The actual speed limit for the road where the accident appends is 60km/h). Any advise? Many thanks in advance; Heela
I have received the disclosure.
Here is the content of the police officer notes:
Both the drivers advise V2 (the driver in front of me) stopped for the traffic driver in front of him strike construction cone. V2 stopped suddenly, V1 (I am the driver) strike V2 from rear, No injuries.
The officer statement is not accurate. The driver in front of me (V2) took a sudden sharp stop from no where in the middle of the road. The road wasnt busy.
The officer in Motor Vehicle Accident Report also indicated that the V2 slows for traffic which is not true. V2e took a sudden sharp stop in the middle of the road. Officer also indicated that the V2 speed at the time was 5Km/h and V1 was 50km/h. The officer wasnt there how could he calculate our speeds. (The actual speed limit for the road where the accident appends is 60km/h). Any advise?
The officer is merely reporting the approx speeds as estimated by the other driver. In my jurisdiction, Careless is the defacto charge at most MVCs...you almost 100% can plead to a follow too close... But here's the dealio...you go to court to fight Careless and you lose? Huge insurance hit, big fine, big points...it's risky. You go and admit to follow too closely (both charges fit) and take $110 and 4 points or roll the dice on $325 and 6 points... I'd have to be very certain I would win to risk the increased penalties and remember insurance...they'll look at a Careless far more severely than a FTC... I'm gonna guess 95% of the hundreds of drivers I've encountered in court showed up with an "I'll show you." attitude only to get shown...it's not like it is on TV, and police a certainly not given any preference in court, but we know how to collect evidence, understand the rules of law and can present a concise case... I bet you arrive in court and they offer you the FTC.
The officer is merely reporting the approx speeds as estimated by the other driver.
In my jurisdiction, Careless is the defacto charge at most MVCs...you almost 100% can plead to a follow too close...
But here's the dealio...you go to court to fight Careless and you lose? Huge insurance hit, big fine, big points...it's risky.
You go and admit to follow too closely (both charges fit) and take $110 and 4 points or roll the dice on $325 and 6 points...
I'd have to be very certain I would win to risk the increased penalties and remember insurance...they'll look at a Careless far more severely than a FTC...
I'm gonna guess 95% of the hundreds of drivers I've encountered in court showed up with an "I'll show you." attitude only to get shown...it's not like it is on TV, and police a certainly not given any preference in court, but we know how to collect evidence, understand the rules of law and can present a concise case...
I bet you arrive in court and they offer you the FTC.
So, what is the solution? The other driver promised that he will not show up to the court, since nothing happened to his car of himself. Now I left with the police officer. What will be my chance to hire a traffic ticket agent to fight for me and completely get rid of the charges both the fine and the points? What will be the chance of wining back the points and pay the fine? And what will be the chance of point reduction and also pay the fine of $110.00 Many thanks once again Heela
So, what is the solution? The other driver promised that he will not show up to the court, since nothing happened to his car of himself. Now I left with the police officer. What will be my chance to hire a traffic ticket agent to fight for me and completely get rid of the charges both the fine and the points? What will be the chance of wining back the points and pay the fine? And what will be the chance of point reduction and also pay the fine of $110.00
You should get professional representation for this charge. Taking chances with Careless Driving allegations is just not what people should do. If you are convicted of this offence your insurance premiums will increase significantly or even insurance coverage declined. If this happens you will end up in high risk category for several years. There are many defences available to Careless Driving charge and you should be aware of them before you decide on your options. P.S. If the other driver does not show up - prosecution MAY NOT be in position to prove the charge. There are rules: hearsay evidence, statements, admissions, etc.
You should get professional representation for this charge. Taking chances with Careless Driving allegations is just not what people should do. If you are convicted of this offence your insurance premiums will increase significantly or even insurance coverage declined. If this happens you will end up in high risk category for several years.
There are many defences available to Careless Driving charge and you should be aware of them before you decide on your options.
P.S. If the other driver does not show up - prosecution MAY NOT be in position to prove the charge. There are rules: hearsay evidence, statements, admissions, etc.
I agree with the last post. Take the disclosure and speak to someone with some training and knows about appearing in court. If you represent yourself at traffic court for this charge and something goes wrong you will have a huge insurance problem...
I agree with the last post.
Take the disclosure and speak to someone with some training and knows about appearing in court. If you represent yourself at traffic court for this charge and something goes wrong you will have a huge insurance problem...
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal
Pray that you don't get your disclosure. At worst you'll get an adjournment, which allows you to use 11b.. At best, the JP will just stay your charges and you're off scott-free. If you get your disclosure package before the trial date and both the constable and the witness are present, you can always talk to the prosecutor about pleading down to a lesser offense such as following too close. It would be treated as a "minor" offense by your insurance company, while careless is definitely treated as a "major" and may even make you uninsurable with some companies.
Pray that you don't get your disclosure. At worst you'll get an adjournment, which allows you to use 11b.. At best, the JP will just stay your charges and you're off scott-free.
If you get your disclosure package before the trial date and both the constable and the witness are present, you can always talk to the prosecutor about pleading down to a lesser offense such as following too close. It would be treated as a "minor" offense by your insurance company, while careless is definitely treated as a "major" and may even make you uninsurable with some companies.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.
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