Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Second judge... 172 Unconstitutional
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:09 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:38 pm
Posts: 632
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Second judge rules "speed" portion of 172 unconstitutional:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/streetracing/article/729505--ontario-stands-firm-on-street-racing-law

Quote:
A second Ontario judge has ruled that the province's stunt driving legislation is unconstitutional, but provincial police say they will continue to lay charges under the so-called street racing law.

A street-racing charge automatically leads to a conviction, which can carry a minimum fine of $2,000, an immediate driver suspension and vehicle impoundment, as well as a maximum jail sentence of six months.

Justice Peter West, a provincial court judge in Newmarket, found that an accused driver's Charter rights are "clearly infringed" by the potential jail time because the law doesn't permit the person to put forward a defence.

"There is no air of reality to the Crown's submissions that a defendant charged with stunt driving under section 172 of the Highway Traffic Act ... has an available defence of due diligence," West stated in a written ruling.

"The possibility of the imposition of up to six months imprisonment thereby renders this section unconstitutional."

In making his ruling, West dismissed stunt-driving charges against Alexandra Drutz, who was reportedly clocked going more than 150 km/h while driving on Hwy. 407 in March 2008.

The decision comes a little more than two months after a Belleville judge called the same law unconstitutional and overturned the conviction of Jane Raham, a 62-year-old grandmother from Oakville, charged with stunt driving.

Brian Starkman, the lawyer who successfully argued that appeal, told the Star at the time, "The reason why the judge found this to be unconstitutional is because, on the one hand, the person is exposed to a possible jail sentence. And, on the other hand, he has no means to defend himself at trial."

That ruling has been appealed by the attorney general's office.

There are various ways to be charged under Ontario's laws designed to target street racers. One of those is to drive 50 km/h over the speed limit, which is the same kind of "absolute liability" offence as other speeding infractions in the Highway Traffic Act, West said.

"It is my view that calling the conduct 'stunt' driving does not change its characterization - it is still a speeding offence albeit by a different name," he wrote.

The ruling doesn't encroach upon the police's ability to nab and charge reckless street racers. Rather, it argues that convicting someone on excessive speed alone — such as in Drutz case — is unconstitutional.

Still, the Ontario Provincial Police said Monday that it will continue laying charges under the stunt driving provisions.

"It has been an effective tool in combating speeding and reducing collisions and deaths on the highway," said Insp. Dave Ross. "(The law) hasn't been struck down, but we are aware of those two decisions."

More than 15,000 drivers have been charged under the stunt driving laws since they were introduced in 2007, Ross said.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:17 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:27 pm
Posts: 959
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Quote:
Still, the Ontario Provincial Police said Monday that it will continue laying charges under the stunt driving provisions.

"It has been an effective tool in combating speeding and reducing collisions and deaths on the highway," said Insp. Dave Ross. "(The law) hasn't been struck down, but we are aware of those two decisions."


When will they learn?

_________________
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:03 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
If the courts are finding it unconstitutional, on what basis are they continuing to charge under that law? It's a waste of taxpayer dollars, and I think that their attitude shows blatant disrespect toward the Charter. They are daring the justice system to take it to the Supreme Court to strike down 172 before they are forced to rescind on their current practice.

However, they are digging their own grave because the case law is just going to build and build against them, and it's of their own doing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:44 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
there is a decision that came on email today, that it is constitutional, but of course the papers won't publish that one.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 7:55 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
hwybear wrote:
there is a decision that came on email today, that it is constitutional, but of course the papers won't publish that one.


It is still unconstitutional to imprison someone without a trial. Take that out and this law may stand.

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:41 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
Quote:
It is still unconstitutional to imprison someone without a trial. Take that out and this law may stand.


But, if it's unconstitutional to imprison someone without a trial, why are people imprisoned and denied bail prior to their trial? I was at court this week and witnessed a case where the accused were arrested and held since April '08. The lawyers and the judge were having difficulties in scheduling time to finish the trial, and the judge got angry because one of the defense counsels was saying he wasn't available until after May, and said that this would have to take precedence given the nature of the accusation and the amount of time the accused have gone without justice. I know that there can be exceptions in the interest of public safety and justice, but there are cases where that is questionable.

Just curious....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:06 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
Marquisse wrote:
Quote:
It is still unconstitutional to imprison someone without a trial. Take that out and this law may stand.


But, if it's unconstitutional to imprison someone without a trial, why are people imprisoned and denied bail prior to their trial? I was at court this week and witnessed a case where the accused were arrested and held since April '08. The lawyers and the judge were having difficulties in scheduling time to finish the trial, and the judge got angry because one of the defense counsels was saying he wasn't available until after May, and said that this would have to take precedence given the nature of the accusation and the amount of time the accused have gone without justice. I know that there can be exceptions in the interest of public safety and justice, but there are cases where that is questionable.

Just curious....


The detainee was arrested, not issued a PON.

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 10:34 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
Can you not get arrested for Stunt Driving as well as receiving a PON?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:21 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Marquisse wrote:
Can you not get arrested for Stunt Driving as well as receiving a PON?


yes you can be arrested for 172 offences, but it is not a PON, but rather a summons.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:46 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
hwybear wrote:
Marquisse wrote:
Can you not get arrested for Stunt Driving as well as receiving a PON?


yes you can be arrested for 172 offences, but it is not a PON, but rather a summons.


Summons may not be a PON but, you can still receive jail time. The law needs to be cleared up so that the jail time is only for say repeat offenders.

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:58 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:35 am
Posts: 222
Reflections wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Marquisse wrote:
Can you not get arrested for Stunt Driving as well as receiving a PON?


yes you can be arrested for 172 offences, but it is not a PON, but rather a summons.


Summons may not be a PON but, you can still receive jail time. The law needs to be cleared up so that the jail time is only for say repeat offenders.


Repeat offenders as in had their vehicle stolen or convicted in court?

I wonder if good ole OPP SGT Dennis Mahoney-Bruer is still using this law as a second income or is he still on paid vacation?
Image

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:52 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
Zing.............

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:29 pm 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:35 am
Posts: 222
Reflections wrote:
Zing.............



Is that a passage from Julian's bible?

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:13 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
BelSlySTi wrote:
Reflections wrote:
Zing.............



Is that a passage from Julian's bible?


Julian's bible starts "Thou shalt worship at the house of the OPP. Bestow your absolute self to the OHTA and it shall be done. The world is a better place, as long as I have absolute control. So it shall pass."



I think I read that somewhere, bathroom wall maybe :D :D


And that other passage reads, "Thou shall not zing or zoom on the roads, and slow you shall pass."

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:55 am 
Offline
Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:35 am
Posts: 222
Thou shall not Steal..............

Image

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. what is the judge handing down ?

logan

1

382

Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:12 am

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Trial supended by judge - what does it mean?

Ben_Gosu

5

560

Sun May 27, 2012 12:22 pm

skywalker12 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. What if judge rejects my 11b motion?

diehard

11

1581

Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:20 pm

clyrrad View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. How to ask the Judge to withdraw the charge at the begining

fingerz

0

505

Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:19 pm

fingerz View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. How to get JP Judge to take Judicial Notice of a book?

jsherk

1

356

Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:53 pm

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Careless driving. Judge said no suspension. But it happened

staychuck

4

519

Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:00 pm

OPS Copper View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Suspended-car taken away-but Judge just threw out case.

dz13

3

810

Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:17 pm

Stanton View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Judge Rawlins precludes herself from my HTA appeal

fighter84

1

440

Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:29 pm

fighter84 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Does hiring a lawyer make you look guilty to the judge?

Johnny

2

540

Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:23 pm

Johnny View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Brantford judge doubles her own fine (in Hamilton court)

racer

3

456

Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:06 am

Reflections View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Impatient judge was too cranky at trial, review finds,

ME AGAIN

1

590

Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:12 am

Sonic View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Judge didn't want to sit to end of day, made me come back

civicanchor

2

282

Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:21 pm

jsherk View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.