Help! Improper Right Turn 141(2) (Victoria and Bracken)

monkeypyjamas
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:27 pm

Help! Improper Right Turn 141(2) (Victoria and Bracken)

by: monkeypyjamas on
Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:41 pm

This morning I got a ticket for an improper right turn off of Victoria Park onto Bracken Ave. in Toronto's Beaches area. I have driven this route a million times before and, in the past, have noticed a sign stating that you cannot turn right onto Bracken from (I think) 7:30-9:30am. I completely thought that it had to do with the school that is at the corner and assumed that it was a Mon-Fri thing. Apparently it's not, since today's a Saturday and I got the ticket today!

I will go back and double check the sign, but I'm sure that the officer is correct and it was my mistake. He did say that, due to my good driving record (19 years driving, not one ticket until today), if I went to court, I could probably get the fine reduced to about half. At the time I didn't think to ask about demerit points, but I now see that it's also two points, which is more upsetting to me than the $110 fine (although it's not a great time for me to fork out that much money on something like this either!).

Anyway, just wondering about people's opinions and experiences with tickets like this. Is it likely to be worth my while to go to court? I have a 10 month old that I'd have to bring along, which could get interesting, so if it's not likely to result in either erasing the demerit points and/or reducing the fine substantially, I'm not sure that it would be.


User avatar
Radar Identified
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2881
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Toronto

Moderator

by: Radar Identified on
Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:13 pm

In terms of the fine, the officer's probably referring to plea-bargaining down to a municipal by-law infraction, which would also take care of the demerit points, and it also wouldn't go on your driver record.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


monkeypyjamas
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:27 pm

by: monkeypyjamas on
Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:01 am

Thanks for the reply. Since I posted my initial post, I've discovered that the sign DOES only say that there are no right turns Mon-Fri, so the whole ticket is an error. What a pain. I'm hearing horror stories about the wait times just to set a trial date and, like I said in the previous post, I have to take my 10 month old along with me.

Are there any other options when the ticket is so obviously not legitimate? I've taken pictures of the signs, etc. and I have no problem going to talk to someone, but the 4-5 hour wait time before I even get to do that is going to be ugly when I don't have any childcare options at the moment...

Such a pain that I'm stuck with this. I didn't want to argue with the officer because I figured that if anyone had read the signs properly, he had, but now I wish I had! Guess it doesn't pay to respect authority that much!

Anyway, any tips on how to deal with this, or times when the courts and waits won't be so terrible?

****************
Here is another question below by above poster that was attached to another thread, moved here and deleted off other thread accordingly....HTA MOD HB

*******************
monkeypyjamas wrote:How do I know if the fourth option is an option in my jurisdiction (City of Toronto)? I have a ticket that is completely a mistake - improper right turn at a corner where there are signs posted saying you can't make the turn Mon-Fri, but I did it on a Saturday - and will have substantial trouble going to court to ask for a trial date due to child care issues.


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

by: hwybear on
Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:16 am

monkeypyjamas wrote: Such a pain that I'm stuck with this. I didn't want to argue with the officer because I figured that if anyone had read the signs properly, he had, but now I wish I had! Guess it doesn't pay to respect authority that much!
There is a HUGE difference from respect and just plain not agreeing.
You could always contact the officer and see if the officer can return to area and see the signage. If the officer sees the sign he/she just might have the prosecutor withdraw the offence ahead of time and give you a follow-up call to confirm. Then call the court and confirm.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


User avatar
Radar Identified
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2881
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Toronto

Moderator

by: Radar Identified on
Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:46 pm

Don't plea bargain this one. You could do what hwybear suggests, or, after the trial date is scheduled, you could walk in and meet with a Prosecutor and explain the situation. Bring the evidence with you (photographs, etc). The Prosecutor should then drop the charge.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


monkeypyjamas
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:27 pm

by: monkeypyjamas on
Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:40 am

hwybear wrote:
There is a HUGE difference from respect and just plain not agreeing.
You are absolutely right and I was being flippant before. I do wish I had asked the officer to come look at the sign with me on the spot, but I was freaked out by being pulled over for the first time in 19 years of driving and getting my first ticket, so I was pretty tongue tied!

I have left a message with the officer and haven't heard anything yet, but for all I know he's currently on night shift or vacation or whatever, so if I haven't heard from him by tomorrow morning, I'm packing up my daughter, a boatload of diverting snacks and toys and going to court to set a date and hoping for as short a wait as possible and as little crying (on the part of the baby!) as possible.

Radar Identified, so after the trial date is set, do I wait until that date before I can speak to a Prosecutor?

If nothing else, this is quite an educational experience for me and I'm learning quite a lot about how these things work! Thanks for all of your help!


User avatar
Radar Identified
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2881
Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Location: Toronto

Moderator

by: Radar Identified on
Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:08 pm

You can talk to a Prosecutor any time after the trial date is set. Just be forewarned, some of them will play games and try to back you into a corner. If they want to engage in brinkmanship, that's their problem. This case is easily winnable. What I'd suggest you do is look at the "Guidelines for Submitting Photographs" thread here:

http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1765.html

You could also call the city of Toronto and ask them where you could find the by-law that erected the "turns prohibited" sign at Victoria and Bracken. You should be able to get a certified copy of it. Plenty of evidence. It may be a bit time-consuming, but it's better than the fine, demerit points and the possible insurance increase!
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics

Return to “Improper right turn”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests