Several months ago, I was on my motorcycle and went to pass two vehicles at the same time. The front car was driving roughly 60kph in an 80kph zone (and had been for 5+ minutes). The car behind it (a uhaul truck) was not going to pass, so I went for it. The driver of the front vehicle, without signalling, turned left and a significant accident ensued. I was taken to hospital and was given no ticket or anything by a police officer, but yesterday, received a summons for Oct 26th to answer for the charge of "drive a vehicle carelessly". To that end, I am confused. I understand, from conversations with friends, that passing multiple vehicles at the same time is apparently illegal (I was not aware, I figured on a straight enough, long enough, open enough road one could pass however many cars they saw fit). But I do not understand why the Crown Attorney would decide that they would press "careless driving charges". I was not careless, and was a fairly responsible motorcycle rider (not all of them are). I guess I'm to call their office, but I guess my questions are: 1.) Why can I not, as when I received a prior ticket (for improper license plate attachment to my car), talk about a plea deal? Tickets have that box to check when you send them in, but I was never given that chance at all. 2.) Assuming at some point I am given the opportunity to plea, is the proper plea attempt to get down to "improper passing"? 3.) (Doubtful members could answer this) Why in the world would they go all the way to careless, when I was in fact within the speed limit or 10 over during the pass. The motorcycle I had was a very fast bike, and yet I was keeping to the laws of the land, why would it be such a significant charge? Any advice, comments, etc would be welcome.
Several months ago, I was on my motorcycle and went to pass two vehicles at the same time. The front car was driving roughly 60kph in an 80kph zone (and had been for 5+ minutes). The car behind it (a uhaul truck) was not going to pass, so I went for it. The driver of the front vehicle, without signalling, turned left and a significant accident ensued.
I was taken to hospital and was given no ticket or anything by a police officer, but yesterday, received a summons for Oct 26th to answer for the charge of "drive a vehicle carelessly". To that end, I am confused. I understand, from conversations with friends, that passing multiple vehicles at the same time is apparently illegal (I was not aware, I figured on a straight enough, long enough, open enough road one could pass however many cars they saw fit). But I do not understand why the Crown Attorney would decide that they would press "careless driving charges". I was not careless, and was a fairly responsible motorcycle rider (not all of them are).
I guess I'm to call their office, but I guess my questions are:
1.) Why can I not, as when I received a prior ticket (for improper license plate attachment to my car), talk about a plea deal? Tickets have that box to check when you send them in, but I was never given that chance at all.
2.) Assuming at some point I am given the opportunity to plea, is the proper plea attempt to get down to "improper passing"?
3.) (Doubtful members could answer this) Why in the world would they go all the way to careless, when I was in fact within the speed limit or 10 over during the pass. The motorcycle I had was a very fast bike, and yet I was keeping to the laws of the land, why would it be such a significant charge?
It is not illegal. With certain offences, you receive a summons to appear in court. You can still plea-bargain, it is just that a court appearance is mandatory. Part 1 tickets (e.g. speeding) have the option of paying out of court. The other reason a summons was issued is that they have 7 days to ticket you, but up to 6 months to issue a summons. Why it wasn't issued earlier... good question. You'll have to get disclosure of the case against you to find out. What I would suggest is contacting a paralegal to discuss the case, as careless driving is a fairly serious charge. It is possible to plead it down, but I would still recommend you at least talk to someone. 6 demerit points, up to $2000 in fines, plus the insurance increase (this can double your premiums) are a lot to be facing alone.
Ex1100 wrote:
passing multiple vehicles at the same time is apparently illegal
It is not illegal.
With certain offences, you receive a summons to appear in court. You can still plea-bargain, it is just that a court appearance is mandatory. Part 1 tickets (e.g. speeding) have the option of paying out of court. The other reason a summons was issued is that they have 7 days to ticket you, but up to 6 months to issue a summons. Why it wasn't issued earlier... good question. You'll have to get disclosure of the case against you to find out.
What I would suggest is contacting a paralegal to discuss the case, as careless driving is a fairly serious charge. It is possible to plead it down, but I would still recommend you at least talk to someone. 6 demerit points, up to $2000 in fines, plus the insurance increase (this can double your premiums) are a lot to be facing alone.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Just because your bike is a lot faster then the other cars you still have to be aware of the road. The trailer hauler was looking for his exit.. You pulled out and you didn't even guess what was going on. (you have to take in the big picture as if you were above watching it from above) You were careless. Did you cross a solid line? If so improper lane change ticket would cover it. In the 30+ years I have been riding I only fell off two times (on dirt bikes) Cheers Viper1
Ex1100 wrote:
Several months ago, I was on my motorcycle and went to pass two vehicles at the same time. The front car was driving roughly 60kph in an 80kph zone (and had been for 5+ minutes). The car behind it (a uhaul truck) was not going to pass, so I went for it. The driver of the front vehicle, without signalling, turned left and a significant accident ensued.
I was taken to hospital and was given no ticket or anything by a police officer, but yesterday, received a summons for Oct 26th to answer for the charge of "drive a vehicle carelessly". To that end, I am confused. I understand, from conversations with friends, that passing multiple vehicles at the same time is apparently illegal (I was not aware, I figured on a straight enough, long enough, open enough road one could pass however many cars they saw fit). But I do not understand why the Crown Attorney would decide that they would press "careless driving charges". I was not careless, and was a fairly responsible motorcycle rider (not all of them are).
I guess I'm to call their office, but I guess my questions are:
1.) Why can I not, as when I received a prior ticket (for improper license plate attachment to my car), talk about a plea deal? Tickets have that box to check when you send them in, but I was never given that chance at all.
2.) Assuming at some point I am given the opportunity to plea, is the proper plea attempt to get down to "improper passing"?
3.) (Doubtful members could answer this) Why in the world would they go all the way to careless, when I was in fact within the speed limit or 10 over during the pass. The motorcycle I had was a very fast bike, and yet I was keeping to the laws of the land, why would it be such a significant charge?
Any advice, comments, etc would be welcome.
Just because your bike is a lot faster then the other cars you still have to be aware of the road.
The trailer hauler was looking for his exit..
You pulled out and you didn't even guess what was going on.
(you have to take in the big picture as if you were above watching it from above)
You were careless.
Did you cross a solid line?
If so improper lane change ticket would cover it.
In the 30+ years I have been riding I only fell off two times (on dirt bikes)
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
It is not illegal. What I would suggest is contacting a paralegal to discuss the case, as careless driving is a fairly serious charge. It is possible to plead it down, but I would still recommend you at least talk to someone. 6 demerit points, up to $2000 in fines, plus the insurance increase (this can double your premiums) are a lot to be facing alone. The police officer who delivered the summons was very nice in explaining the situation to some degree. She said that I should request disclosure (either now, or at this first court date) and seek legal advice (30 minutes free?). She wasn't clear as to whether I was seeking one of those places which says "We'll get your ticket lowered for $300!!" or whether I should seek a serious lawyer (albeit, I'm a little disappointed I should have to). Are there paralegals working specifically on the HTA?
Radar Identified wrote:
Ex1100 wrote:
passing multiple vehicles at the same time is apparently illegal
It is not illegal.
What I would suggest is contacting a paralegal to discuss the case, as careless driving is a fairly serious charge. It is possible to plead it down, but I would still recommend you at least talk to someone. 6 demerit points, up to $2000 in fines, plus the insurance increase (this can double your premiums) are a lot to be facing alone.
The police officer who delivered the summons was very nice in explaining the situation to some degree. She said that I should request disclosure (either now, or at this first court date) and seek legal advice (30 minutes free?). She wasn't clear as to whether I was seeking one of those places which says "We'll get your ticket lowered for $300!!" or whether I should seek a serious lawyer (albeit, I'm a little disappointed I should have to). Are there paralegals working specifically on the HTA?
If someone in front of me slams the brakes and turns I might be a wee bit pissed, especially if there was no signal. 20 under for 5 minutes is: A. Far too slow B. Inconsiderate C. Dangerous to those lined up behind you The fact that it was 5 minutes does not suggest to me that the driver was looking for a road or house, just a slow a$$ old guy(was the driver old/young?). I think you can beat this but I would suggest legal help as well.
You pulled out and you didn't even guess what was going on.
(you have to take in the big picture as if you were above watching it from above)
If someone in front of me slams the brakes and turns I might be a wee bit pissed, especially if there was no signal. 20 under for 5 minutes is:
A. Far too slow
B. Inconsiderate
C. Dangerous to those lined up behind you
The fact that it was 5 minutes does not suggest to me that the driver was looking for a road or house, just a slow a$$ old guy(was the driver old/young?). I think you can beat this but I would suggest legal help as well.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
1. I only mentioned the speed of the bike to attempt to discern what the Crown Attorney may think ("A motorcyclist, they drive fast"), but then presented the counter argument ("I didn't, I drove safely, at speed limits"). Most motorcyclists realize you have to be 100x more aware on one than in a car. 2. Within the limited scope of a.) what police enforce, and b.) the fact that on a country-ish road there's a lack of enforcement, the fact is that it is a regular occurence for drivers to maintain speeds significantly slower than the limit. At some point, one must assume that they are doing so (whether you decide in 5km, or 50km, or 500km, that's personal choice). I stated 5+ mins at 60kph, so after more than 5km, I assumed they were simply driving slow. The trailer driver (the uhaul) was headed to Niagara Falls (another 40-50k), they were not looking for their exit at all. 3. I did make an incorrect assumption, I don't suspect doing so makes me a careless driver so much as a wrong one. I accept my contribution to the accident. Similarly, one could argue they attempted to turn left without checking their left side and also contributed through an assumption. Not all assumptions lead to accidents, not all accidents are careless. 4. I crossed a dotted + yellow line, my side had the dotted. 5. I've only fallen off my bike once, so technically I'm a 50% better driver than you. ;) (I kid, of course, you're actually 100% worse than me ;) . Keep the shiny up, Viper. Ex.
viper1 wrote:
Just because your bike is a lot faster then the other cars you still have to be aware of the road.
The trailer hauler was looking for his exit..
You pulled out and you didn't even guess what was going on.
(you have to take in the big picture as if you were above watching it from above)
You were careless.
Did you cross a solid line?
If so improper lane change ticket would cover it.
In the 30+ years I have been riding I only fell off two times (on dirt bikes)
Cheers
Viper1
1. I only mentioned the speed of the bike to attempt to discern what the Crown Attorney may think ("A motorcyclist, they drive fast"), but then presented the counter argument ("I didn't, I drove safely, at speed limits"). Most motorcyclists realize you have to be 100x more aware on one than in a car.
2. Within the limited scope of a.) what police enforce, and b.) the fact that on a country-ish road there's a lack of enforcement, the fact is that it is a regular occurence for drivers to maintain speeds significantly slower than the limit. At some point, one must assume that they are doing so (whether you decide in 5km, or 50km, or 500km, that's personal choice). I stated 5+ mins at 60kph, so after more than 5km, I assumed they were simply driving slow. The trailer driver (the uhaul) was headed to Niagara Falls (another 40-50k), they were not looking for their exit at all.
3. I did make an incorrect assumption, I don't suspect doing so makes me a careless driver so much as a wrong one. I accept my contribution to the accident. Similarly, one could argue they attempted to turn left without checking their left side and also contributed through an assumption. Not all assumptions lead to accidents, not all accidents are careless.
4. I crossed a dotted + yellow line, my side had the dotted.
5. I've only fallen off my bike once, so technically I'm a 50% better driver than you. (I kid, of course, you're actually 100% worse than me .
100% agree. It seems like the driver who turned was being inattentive and careless. I'm also surprised that the driver who turned was not charged. Another question is, why is the charge being laid several months after the fact? And Ex1100 - yes, there are paralegals who handle HTA cases. Plenty of them. Some of them post on this forum, and you can also fill out a form at the bottom of this page to get a free no-obligation quote. Talk to each possible representative and see what they have to say, how much they're willing to do, etc.
Reflections wrote:
If someone in front of me slams the brakes and turns I might be a wee bit pissed, especially if there was no signal. 20 under for 5 minutes is:
A. Far too slow
B. Inconsiderate
C. Dangerous to those lined up behind you
100% agree. It seems like the driver who turned was being inattentive and careless. I'm also surprised that the driver who turned was not charged. Another question is, why is the charge being laid several months after the fact?
And Ex1100 - yes, there are paralegals who handle HTA cases. Plenty of them. Some of them post on this forum, and you can also fill out a form at the bottom of this page to get a free no-obligation quote. Talk to each possible representative and see what they have to say, how much they're willing to do, etc.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
1. I only mentioned the speed of the bike to attempt to discern what the Crown Attorney may think ("A motorcyclist, they drive fast"), but then presented the counter argument ("I didn't, I drove safely, at speed limits"). Most motorcyclists realize you have to be 100x more aware on one than in a car. 2. Within the limited scope of a.) what police enforce, and b.) the fact that on a country-ish road there's a lack of enforcement, the fact is that it is a regular occurence for drivers to maintain speeds significantly slower than the limit. At some point, one must assume that they are doing so (whether you decide in 5km, or 50km, or 500km, that's personal choice). I stated 5+ mins at 60kph, so after more than 5km, I assumed they were simply driving slow. The trailer driver (the uhaul) was headed to Niagara Falls (another 40-50k), they were not looking for their exit at all. 3. I did make an incorrect assumption, I don't suspect doing so makes me a careless driver so much as a wrong one. I accept my contribution to the accident. Similarly, one could argue they attempted to turn left without checking their left side and also contributed through an assumption. Not all assumptions lead to accidents, not all accidents are careless. 4. I crossed a dotted + yellow line, my side had the dotted. 5. I've only fallen off my bike once, so technically I'm a 50% better driver than you. ;) (I kid, of course, you're actually 100% worse than me ;) . Keep the shiny up, Viper. Ex. You never said what the accident was about. I had to guess that you ran into a left turning vehicle.(am I right?) Cheers Viper1
Ex1100 wrote:
viper1 wrote:
Just because your bike is a lot faster then the other cars you still have to be aware of the road.
The trailer hauler was looking for his exit..
You pulled out and you didn't even guess what was going on.
(you have to take in the big picture as if you were above watching it from above)
You were careless.
Did you cross a solid line?
If so improper lane change ticket would cover it.
In the 30+ years I have been riding I only fell off two times (on dirt bikes)
Cheers
Viper1
1. I only mentioned the speed of the bike to attempt to discern what the Crown Attorney may think ("A motorcyclist, they drive fast"), but then presented the counter argument ("I didn't, I drove safely, at speed limits"). Most motorcyclists realize you have to be 100x more aware on one than in a car.
2. Within the limited scope of a.) what police enforce, and b.) the fact that on a country-ish road there's a lack of enforcement, the fact is that it is a regular occurence for drivers to maintain speeds significantly slower than the limit. At some point, one must assume that they are doing so (whether you decide in 5km, or 50km, or 500km, that's personal choice). I stated 5+ mins at 60kph, so after more than 5km, I assumed they were simply driving slow. The trailer driver (the uhaul) was headed to Niagara Falls (another 40-50k), they were not looking for their exit at all.
3. I did make an incorrect assumption, I don't suspect doing so makes me a careless driver so much as a wrong one. I accept my contribution to the accident. Similarly, one could argue they attempted to turn left without checking their left side and also contributed through an assumption. Not all assumptions lead to accidents, not all accidents are careless.
4. I crossed a dotted + yellow line, my side had the dotted.
5. I've only fallen off my bike once, so technically I'm a 50% better driver than you. (I kid, of course, you're actually 100% worse than me .
Keep the shiny up, Viper.
Ex.
You never said what the accident was about.
I had to guess that you ran into a left turning vehicle.(am I right?)
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Yes. My bike hit a vehicle as they turned left (without signal) while I was passing them. My friend actually pulled out into the oncoming traffic lane, having checked for oncoming traffic and signal lights, then proceeded to pass the 2 vehicles. I followed suit as sweep (in a 2 person group). The van missed him by near inches (he thought he was gone), but unfortunately, then was perfectly lined up to take out me. I'm not sure if the technicality of who ran into who contributes to liability, I'm curious to find out.
viper1 wrote:
You never said what the accident was about.
I had to guess that you ran into a left turning vehicle.(am I right?)
Cheers
Viper1
Yes. My bike hit a vehicle as they turned left (without signal) while I was passing them. My friend actually pulled out into the oncoming traffic lane, having checked for oncoming traffic and signal lights, then proceeded to pass the 2 vehicles. I followed suit as sweep (in a 2 person group). The van missed him by near inches (he thought he was gone), but unfortunately, then was perfectly lined up to take out me.
I'm not sure if the technicality of who ran into who contributes to liability, I'm curious to find out.
Thank you, the form had gone un-noticed. (Let's hope that my tunnel vision is post crash, or at least only linked to the internet? ;) ). I filled it out, though a friend warned me to ensure that they will attempt to quash it or lower it significantly. Apparently there are some paralegals who will get it dropped by 1 point and then claim their fee, despite possible better standings being available with more work (ie, min work for max pay, which we all do, but not what you wish to hire). Regardless, thank you, I needed to start somewhere, and the advice here has been very helpful.
Radar Identified wrote:
And Ex1100 - yes, there are paralegals who handle HTA cases. Plenty of them. Some of them post on this forum, and you can also fill out a form at the bottom of this page to get a free no-obligation quote. Talk to each possible representative and see what they have to say, how much they're willing to do, etc.
Thank you, the form had gone un-noticed. (Let's hope that my tunnel vision is post crash, or at least only linked to the internet? ). I filled it out, though a friend warned me to ensure that they will attempt to quash it or lower it significantly. Apparently there are some paralegals who will get it dropped by 1 point and then claim their fee, despite possible better standings being available with more work (ie, min work for max pay, which we all do, but not what you wish to hire).
Regardless, thank you, I needed to start somewhere, and the advice here has been very helpful.
Tomorrow is the date, to set a date. I'm sitting in front of the forms for XCopper, who promise me for $678 to get it reduced to 3 Demerits, though I think I can talk to the Crown Attorney and probably get that done on my own. XCopper does what many places do, they say that they prioritize: Waived/0 Demerits/2 Demerits/3 Demerits/Trial, which doesn't really prioritize Waived to them, as long as they get a 3 Demerits quickly, they will have earned their paycheque (5 minutes work is better than 6 hrs). I'm not sure under that condition that I'll choose them until after it comes to the idea that I need to go to court. After examining statements from the other rider, and after going to the place of accident and getting pictures of the 1 km of dashed road, I believe the other driver should have been charged with (just asked a Cop, who said it was) "Left Hand Turn Not In Safety", though I couldn't find that in the HTA itself. Any advice? It seems to me, to pay XC $700, where they have no guarantee or reasoning to reduce the fee below 3 demerits, is as good as just going down there and talking to the Crown Attorney myself. If at that point she doesn't want to deal, then would be the time to seek counsel. I attempted to have XC change their prioritization to Waived/0/Trial, but the paralegal said not to change the form.
Tomorrow is the date, to set a date. I'm sitting in front of the forms for XCopper, who promise me for $678 to get it reduced to 3 Demerits, though I think I can talk to the Crown Attorney and probably get that done on my own. XCopper does what many places do, they say that they prioritize: Waived/0 Demerits/2 Demerits/3 Demerits/Trial, which doesn't really prioritize Waived to them, as long as they get a 3 Demerits quickly, they will have earned their paycheque (5 minutes work is better than 6 hrs). I'm not sure under that condition that I'll choose them until after it comes to the idea that I need to go to court.
After examining statements from the other rider, and after going to the place of accident and getting pictures of the 1 km of dashed road, I believe the other driver should have been charged with (just asked a Cop, who said it was) "Left Hand Turn Not In Safety", though I couldn't find that in the HTA itself.
Any advice? It seems to me, to pay XC $700, where they have no guarantee or reasoning to reduce the fee below 3 demerits, is as good as just going down there and talking to the Crown Attorney myself. If at that point she doesn't want to deal, then would be the time to seek counsel. I attempted to have XC change their prioritization to Waived/0/Trial, but the paralegal said not to change the form.
I have to say sorry.(for my error) You are in the right. The person turning left needs to make sure it is clear to do it. I hope I am not too late to help. Cheers Viper1
Ex1100 wrote:
Tomorrow is the date, to set a date. I'm sitting in front of the forms for XCopper, who promise me for $678 to get it reduced to 3 Demerits, though I think I can talk to the Crown Attorney and probably get that done on my own. XCopper does what many places do, they say that they prioritize: Waived/0 Demerits/2 Demerits/3 Demerits/Trial, which doesn't really prioritize Waived to them, as long as they get a 3 Demerits quickly, they will have earned their paycheque (5 minutes work is better than 6 hrs). I'm not sure under that condition that I'll choose them until after it comes to the idea that I need to go to court.
After examining statements from the other rider, and after going to the place of accident and getting pictures of the 1 km of dashed road, I believe the other driver should have been charged with (just asked a Cop, who said it was) "Left Hand Turn Not In Safety", though I couldn't find that in the HTA itself.
Any advice? It seems to me, to pay XC $700, where they have no guarantee or reasoning to reduce the fee below 3 demerits, is as good as just going down there and talking to the Crown Attorney myself. If at that point she doesn't want to deal, then would be the time to seek counsel. I attempted to have XC change their prioritization to Waived/0/Trial, but the paralegal said not to change the form.
I have to say sorry.(for my error)
You are in the right.
The person turning left needs to make sure it is clear to do it.
I hope I am not too late to help.
Cheers
Viper1
"hang onto your chair when reading my posts
use at your own risk"
Based on what you have said, you both could have been charged. You for pass unsafe, and the other driver for unsafe turn. Careless driving is often laid by the police as almost all plea to something lessor. To further demoralize you, The fault Determination Rules, found under the Insurance Act specifies who is at fault in specific collisions. In your case, you passing multiple vehicles, the Rules state you are 100% at fault. Police do not find fault or declare who is at fault. The Rules do that. The police issue tickets for things done wrong. The Provincial Offences Act permits you (any person) to lay an information. You could go before a JP and tell him/her what happened and the other driver could be charged for unsafe turn. Do not plea to anything unless all witness for the prosecution are there. Bring your friend to say that he passed right before you, so the driver should have noticed him and looked for you
Based on what you have said, you both could have been charged. You for pass unsafe, and the other driver for unsafe turn. Careless driving is often laid by the police as almost all plea to something lessor.
To further demoralize you, The fault Determination Rules, found under the Insurance Act specifies who is at fault in specific collisions. In your case, you passing multiple vehicles, the Rules state you are 100% at fault. Police do not find fault or declare who is at fault. The Rules do that. The police issue tickets for things done wrong. The Provincial Offences Act permits you (any person) to lay an information. You could go before a JP and tell him/her what happened and the other driver could be charged for unsafe turn.
Do not plea to anything unless all witness for the prosecution are there. Bring your friend to say that he passed right before you, so the driver should have noticed him and looked for you
The Fight Continues.... My court date is August 3, 2011, just under a month away. I had been given the court date since February, and have largely been doing other things in life. My paralegal had, for all intents and purposes, not contacted me about this until about 2 weeks ago (I am slightly displeased, but herein will lie the question). It was suggested by numerous websites that I apply for an 11b Constitutional Challenge, since the accident date is May 21, 2010, the first court date Oct 2010, and the actual trial date is Aug 2011. That leaves it 14-15 months since the accident date. All the delays were to have the appropriate disclosure (which wasn't provided until January). However, my paralegal has suggested that it is a waste of time, that it will take him a day to prepare such a briefing. It appears a simple form, and I am only arguing that it has been 14 months since the accident, that I appeared in court on October, November, December, January (got disclosure) and February (to set trial date and say we had disclosure), and that I have made no motions to slow down the court date. So 10 months since the first court date, and 14 months since the accident is too long. (It is possible the JP will say no, and just move on with the case, I accept that). But I am surprised that while several prominent websites have listed this as a fairly good tactic, and the St Catharines Provincial Court phone-answerer (I know, take her for what's she's worth) was reading me back the dates I had attended court, the accident date, and said it was actually a fairly likely thing to win. So really, my question is: Is my paralegal incorrect? Has anyone filed one of these and knows what happens when the court session begins, and I have asked for this? Is it really the "days work" for the paralegal, or is it a simple up/down type vote on whether they feel it took too long?
The Fight Continues....
My court date is August 3, 2011, just under a month away. I had been given the court date since February, and have largely been doing other things in life. My paralegal had, for all intents and purposes, not contacted me about this until about 2 weeks ago (I am slightly displeased, but herein will lie the question). It was suggested by numerous websites that I apply for an 11b Constitutional Challenge, since the accident date is May 21, 2010, the first court date Oct 2010, and the actual trial date is Aug 2011. That leaves it 14-15 months since the accident date. All the delays were to have the appropriate disclosure (which wasn't provided until January).
However, my paralegal has suggested that it is a waste of time, that it will take him a day to prepare such a briefing. It appears a simple form, and I am only arguing that it has been 14 months since the accident, that I appeared in court on October, November, December, January (got disclosure) and February (to set trial date and say we had disclosure), and that I have made no motions to slow down the court date. So 10 months since the first court date, and 14 months since the accident is too long. (It is possible the JP will say no, and just move on with the case, I accept that). But I am surprised that while several prominent websites have listed this as a fairly good tactic, and the St Catharines Provincial Court phone-answerer (I know, take her for what's she's worth) was reading me back the dates I had attended court, the accident date, and said it was actually a fairly likely thing to win.
So really, my question is: Is my paralegal incorrect? Has anyone filed one of these and knows what happens when the court session begins, and I have asked for this? Is it really the "days work" for the paralegal, or is it a simple up/down type vote on whether they feel it took too long?
I find it weird/unusual about disclosure as usually a summons is different from a ticket, in that the complete brief (disclosure) was available on your first October court date.
I find it weird/unusual about disclosure as usually a summons is different from a ticket, in that the complete brief (disclosure) was available on your first October court date.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
It's not just filling out the form though for a paralegal or lawyer. An unrepresented person may be able to get away with that but the paralegal will have to write a factum outlining the law on the issue, the facts of your case, and the application on the law to the facts. In addition they have to prepare affadavits for you and themselves, plus a book of authorities for all the cases they want to reference. Then they have to print multiple copies, bind them, make a trip to the courthouse, and serve a copy on them. The fact that yours is simple is probably why it would take ONLY a day. Also, it's more complicated than just the amount of time since the charge. Some of that time can be counted as intake or neutral time, which means it doesn't count in the calculation. Finally, you might wonder why paralegals have to go through all this trouble if unrepresented people don't. The answer is because they know how to and it is the rules of practice. Those rules are sometimes relaxed for unrepresented individuals to ensure justice, but the fact remains that without a factum and oral argument, most challenges by unrepresented peopke are unsuccessful. Reason being that you cant rely on the judge to know the law and how it applies to your particular case, you have to present it to them in a clear and convincing manner.
It's not just filling out the form though for a paralegal or lawyer. An unrepresented person may be able to get away with that but the paralegal will have to write a factum outlining the law on the issue, the facts of your case, and the application on the law to the facts. In addition they have to prepare affadavits for you and themselves, plus a book of authorities for all the cases they want to reference. Then they have to print multiple copies, bind them, make a trip to the courthouse, and serve a copy on them. The fact that yours is simple is probably why it would take ONLY a day.
Also, it's more complicated than just the amount of time since the charge. Some of that time can be counted as intake or neutral time, which means it doesn't count in the calculation.
Finally, you might wonder why paralegals have to go through all this trouble if unrepresented people don't. The answer is because they know how to and it is the rules of practice. Those rules are sometimes relaxed for unrepresented individuals to ensure justice, but the fact remains that without a factum and oral argument, most challenges by unrepresented peopke are unsuccessful. Reason being that you cant rely on the judge to know the law and how it applies to your particular case, you have to present it to them in a clear and convincing manner.
Hi, I am new to the forum. I have been trying to get information off of here and www.ticketcombat.com for my case.
I was given a ticket for going 122km/h in a posted 100km/h zone at Hwy 401 east at Thickson Rd in Whitby ON on April 10th, 2009.
I find this absolutely absurd, since I was in the left most lane of the 401 approximately(within 5km/h) following the speed of traffic in my lane. The guy in…
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
On Wednesday I attended court at 1530 Markham Road, courtroom E2, in order to fight my speeding ticket. My original plan was to plead not guilty, and to watch all the people who went before me, the process, the Prosecutor and the Justice Of The Peace so I could strategize and form the best plan for my defence at trial. I had done some research online and sort of knew I wanted to defend myself,…
About 5 months ago I was driving along a two-way road approaching an intersection. The road had a left/ straight turning lane and a right turning lane. There was an 18 wheel gravel truck occupying the left lane at a red light. I pulled behind the truck intending to drive straight. After not moving for about 1 second, I check my rear view mirror, signaled and changed lanes to the right…
I am currently working for an auto parts delivery company and they contracted me to work as a courier.
As I left my base to make my first delivery which was less than 300 meters away from the shop, I had my seat belt off because i was under the impression, according to Section 106 Exception #6 subsection (c) of the highway traffic act, that I would be exempted from the seat belt law. The rule…
Got a ticket yesterday for "Insecure Load" contrary to HTA Sec 111(2). $160. I was pulling a utility trailer in which I had loaded a steel and wood cabinet. Total length of cabinet is 57.5". 14.75" (1/4 of the cabinet) was sticking out over the side of the trailer at about a 45 degree angle, the rest (3/4) was inside the trailer. The trailer has sides 24" high. I didn't have a tie-down or bungee…
I've been researching for months for defence strategy and basic trial information regarding my speeding ticket. However, the information is so conflicting that I have no confidence whatsoever that I know what I'm doing.
I didn't get this info from a friend of a friend, it came from this website, court officials, case laws, and a consultation with a traffic ticket fighting company.
So I was driving east bound pulling an empty tandem trailer on a gravel highway. Eventually I caught up to a truck pulling a fifth wheel. The speed limit was 70km/h and I don't quite remember but I'm almost 100% that the guy in front of me was driving at 60km/h. After being behind him for a few kilometers and getting two cracks in my windshield from rocks off his tires, I decided to pass him. I…
I have been driving for over 10 years without any tickets and accidents what so ever. Unfortunately my luck ran out this past Friday; when the officer pulled me over doing 80 in a 50 zone in Mississauga, Ontario. Officer was very friendly and polite not to mention nice enough to reduce the charge to 15KM.
On the speeding ticket it now says doing 65km in a 50 zone. Never having a speeding…
hi everyone im just wondering if its right for a cop to have my car impounded and give me a traffic ticket for improper plates when my car didnt leave my property, yes i knew the plates werent to my car but on private property it dont matter aslong as it dosent go onto public property. am i right with this that i shouldnt have gotten the ticket or my car impounded?????????????
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
Hi guys, I got pulled over last night and was ticketed with HTA 172, I was going 157 on a 100 on 400N and was wondering what I should do. I was using cruise control but the guy in the lane to my left was driving into my lane irresponsibly to I sped up to get ahead of him and just my luck that's when an OPP cruiser pulled up behind me flashing his lights. My court date is at the end of the month…
If anyone can answer this I would greatly appreciate it.
Friday morning I checked my mail and received a letter from the MTO stating that under section 47(1) of the HTA the Registrar of Motor Vehicles has decided to suspend my driving privilege for medical reasons. This was due to a report submitted by a physician in compliance with section 203 of the HTA. Enclosed with that letter were forms to…
Ok so looking for some advice in regards to my wife's speeding ticket 120k in 100 (I was in vehicle so witnessed most - but was resting at initial clock.)
whats the likelihood of positive outcome of an 11b (or an officer no show, which I suspect doesn't really happen as much as web/Ads would have you believe) of 8months.
Wife REALLY doesn't want to go, and of course I'm the one doing all of the…
I know I shouldn't have driving but I slept at my buddies' place and I thought I was ok to drive in the morning.. needless to say I still drove and got pulled over.
Background details:
I was pulled over in the morning last week, apparently going 120 km/hr on 90km Northbound DVP. Two cop cars tailed me for a bit, saw them in my rearview mirror while on the left lane, slowed down to…
I got two tickets on Feb 20 2011. One for red light, and the other for Stop sign. I knew I had a good chance at getting off on the red light, because the officer couldn't actually see the light facing me. He was at an opposite angle, further up the street.
I set a court date for both tickets. On April 22 I moved to a new place. I went to the Service Ontario location and renewed my licence…
Winnipeg's police officers have been told to issue more traffic tickets, in part to increase revenue.
And a union representing cops says the move could hurt their efforts to curb the city's gang violence.
Police Chief Keith McCaskill said last night he -- and he alone, without input from Mayor Sam Katz -- recently made the call to patrolling officers and to those in specialized units to step up…
I'm wondering if anyone could enlighten me on what to do about the following scenario:
I was pulled over by a YRP constable because I only had one front head light working. Upon being pulled over, I also realized my insurance card was expired by one month and my car permit was not on me at all. (It doesn't matter now but my valid insurance card was sitting at home in an envelope…
I have a wicked prosecutor in my area, he is an evil man and will lie and cheat, whatever is necessary for him to win. I got a yellow light infraction ticket and the cop was a no show. I requested the charge dismissed and it went like this:
Me: I request the charge be dismissed because the officer is not here
Prosecutor: No, we are going to adjourn the trial so the officer can attend
Accident happened at a regular intersection with turning lanes and lights. I was turning left. The light turned yellow, and the car approaching sped up to make the light. I thought he was stopping, so i made the turn. At the time of the collision the light was red.
I understand that it is my fault. I'm just wondering what my best course of action is.
alright well to get started ive developed a passion for longboarding
for those of you who dont already know a longboard is a big skateboard too heavy for tricks and stuff but boy can they ever go fast
my hobbies include going up the escarpment here in hamilton and stoney creek and riding down the roads leading to the lower part of the city. just wondering here. what would happen if i was going down…
My court date is nearing at old city hall at appeals court.
iwhats going to happen and what do i do?
do I present my certificate of offence and point out to the judge the fine was incorrect, I did not appear and am now appealing on the grounds the Justice of the peace erred and failed to quash the ticket on the basis of the certificate not being properly examined and is not complete and regular on…
(I kid, of course, you're actually 100% worse than me 
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