141 (5) - Officer recommended to battle in court

DrivingDave
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141 (5) - Officer recommended to battle in court

by: DrivingDave on
Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:30 pm

Hi guys, so I was making a left on an intersection (at a green light) and the road looked clear when I turned. There was another car in front of me making a left (it was a large round van type of car so it was hard to see around it) on the other side and the road was slightly curved which may have diminished the distance of the road ahead that I can see. So I stopped and then proceeded to what I thought would be a safe left turn only to find out there were 2 cars coming but at that point it was too late to reverse. So I just went ahead and 1 of the cars ended up hitting me. I'm sure if he slowed down he wouldn't have hit me.

I know that it's my fault and I should have waited for the opposite car to make a left or until the light turned amber and there were no cars coming or they all slowed down for the light before turning.

I have only driven for a few months but I did get the driving lessons which reduced the insurance premiums. I currently own a G2 as well.

Both cars were totaled but all passengers were mostly fine, no major injuries of any kind.

Now the officer that arrived at the scene recommended me to fight the ticket in court "since I only have a G2". My main issue is the 3 demerit points since my insurance will go up, the fine I can deal with. My dad is the main driver and according to johnson insurance they placed the blame on him and since he had a clean record for all his life they used the first forgiveness. But apparently my insurance might still go up.

What should I say when the trial comes? Should I just say that I had a G2 and the other driver could have slowed down and reduce points/fees? Any help is appreciated.


jsherk
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by: jsherk on
Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:18 pm

Your insurance could go up even if the charge had 0 demerit points, so don't fall into that trap of beliveing that 0 demerits is a good thing. Of course 0 demerits is better than 3 demerits (especially for G2) but my point is that demerit points have nothing to do with insurance increases.

What were you charged with (charge and section number)?

Does it say SUMMONS at the top of ticket or does it say NOTICE OF OFFENSE?
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


UnluckyDuck
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by: UnluckyDuck on
Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:23 pm

No driver or operator of a vehicle in an intersection shall turn left across the path of a vehicle approaching from the opposite direction unless he or she has afforded a reasonable opportunity to the driver or operator of the approaching vehicle to avoid a collision. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 141 (5).
Pretty much acurate charge. Best thing to do is to request a trial and check the disclosure, then base your defense on that. It doesn't hurt to try this, maybe take a plea deal, but either way, you have nothing to lose.


ynotp
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by: ynotp on
Fri Jul 17, 2015 3:41 pm

If you plan on fighting it in court you have to argue that you did not do what you are accused of. So if the charge is "Left Turn - Fail to afford reasonable opportunity to avoid collision" then you have to be prepared to argue as to why that is not the case. If you tell the same story in court that you tell us here you will be convicted given that you proceeded to make the left without being able to see oncoming traffic. Perhaps the officer was telling you to ask for a plea bargain.

Any ticket or claim will also be reason enough for an increase of insurance no matter who the policy belongs to so long as you are listed as a driver. Now if you are insured on your father's policy it will be his insurance that is affected by the claim but since he has accident forgiveness he need not worry this time unless he plans on changing insurance companies. If you have your own insurance policy apart from your fathers on another vehicle it will be affected by the ticket and the claim.

As already stated the insurance in going to count any conviction for any charge against you so plea bargaining form one minor charge with points to another with 0 points is still going to count against you. You are best off challenging the ticket, when you get a court date ask for disclosure and post what you get here, someone may be able to spot something in the notes that will help.




jsherk
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by: jsherk on
Tue Apr 26, 2016 4:41 pm

So in this instance, the officer did not witness the crash and therefore at least one of the two or three witnesses would need to be there to testify in order for you to be charged. You should NOT take the witness stand and should NOT testify against yourself.

So there is a chance that none of the witnesses will show up in which case the charge would probably be dropped (or prosecutor will try to reschedule to another trial date, but you should object to this).

Plea bargains are up to the prosecutor. They are not required to offer you one, but if they do it will be before the trial starts. Some prosecutors are very open and honest and will tell you whether the witnesses are there or not there, whereas others will try to get you to plead guilty to the plea deal offer without telling you there are no witnesses.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Observer135
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by: Observer135 on
Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:53 am

Couple of more things...

First, you should NEVER proceed to make a turn if you do not have a clear view of oncoming traffic. This accident could have been much much worst, imagine if you were hit by an 18 wheeler, you would probably not be here asking for advice, just think of that and count your lucky starts.

As to your trial, as jsherk stated, there is a good chance none of the witnesses will be there, if this happens you can walk, but if they show up you should have a plan B as to why you need an adjournment, this is how you can reschedule hoping the witness will not come to your second trial date.
It's a dirty trick, but it is what it is, let's call a spade a spade.

In regards to not testifying, there is always two sides to the coin. On one hand, you could take the stand and self incriminate, on the other hand you could take the stand and bring issues to light that will cast doubt and prevent conviction. The question is, in your case which out weights the other?
The reason I say this, I read in one of the decisions made that; due to lack of testimony/evidence by the defendant, the JP had nothing else to go on other than what was being offered by the crown, therefore he could not find anything to dismiss the case and he found the accused guilty.

You might want to talk to a professional before proceeding to trial and get their advice and opinion, some one like x-copper, they can offer advice for a minimal fee.


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