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Recommended charge to plea down to?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:09 am 
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So I got busted for driving 10 over the speed limit. :roll:

I don't deny it. I was excited to bring the kids to my mother in law, so I laid the pedal 1.4mm closer to the floor than I normally do.

In any event, I got busted and would rather not use up my family's "ticket forgiveness" clause on our insurance for something so stupid. I have a pristine abstract and would like to keep it that way.

I've asked for a meeting with the prosecutor. They referred me not to my local POA court (e.g. local to where I live and to where the offense took place), but rather to one 30 kilometers away. Can they do that?

When I meet with the prosecutor, I would like to ask that we plea it to something that won't go on my abstract at all - a parking ticket, a loud muffler, etc. I figure that since it is a provincial employee, the province will want to keep the money so parking is probably out. The total fine is $40, so I'm willing to spend say, up to $75 to keep it completely off my abstract.

What offenses won't show up on my abstract and potentially harm my insurance premiums?


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:56 am 
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perryub wrote:
I've asked for a meeting with the prosecutor. They referred me not to my local POA court (e.g. local to where I live and to where the offense took place), but rather to one 30 kilometers away. Can they do that?


Some municipalities will have what they call satellite buildings. They're locations you can go to when you want to just pay a ticket or do other simple things. It's not somewhere you'd usually go for a trial. It's possible you were referred to a satellite building. I guess that's a possibility.

perryub wrote:
When I meet with the prosecutor, I would like to ask that we plea it to something that won't go on my abstract at all - a parking ticket, a loud muffler, etc. I figure that since it is a provincial employee, the province will want to keep the money so parking is probably out. The total fine is $40, so I'm willing to spend say, up to $75 to keep it completely off my abstract.


This is not really something they do. The charge usually has to relate to the offense.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:51 am 
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see below

perryub wrote:
so I laid the pedal 1.4mm closer to the floor than I normally do.


now THAT was funny !

perryub wrote:
In any event, I got busted and would rather not use up my family's "ticket forgiveness" clause on our insurance for something so stupid. I have a pristine abstract and would like to keep it that way.


it's accident forgiveness, not ticket forgiveness, no insurance company does that, "and" accident forgiveness is ONLY applicable to that insurance company,

perryub wrote:
When I meet with the prosecutor, I would like to ask that we plea it to something that won't go on my abstract at all - a parking ticket, a loud muffler, etc. I figure that since it is a provincial employee, the province will want to keep the money so parking is probably out. The total fine is $40, so I'm willing to spend say, up to $75 to keep it completely off my abstract.


Do you know something, anything is possible, as already stated, it has to be related, I "have" seen people get off, the P could be having a good day, eat humble pie say your sorry tell a joke,
If your convicted it WILL go on your abstract, I think 10 is no demerit's , whilst demerits are not considered by your insurance, it is only a minor, so you may or may not get a rise (some insurance companies vary), shouldnt be more than 5% increase (but for at least 2-3 years) if you stay clean it will go after 2.

BUT if you accept this, then you may get another, then your in dangerous territory. Some say don't agree to a 1st ticket for that reason.

You can opt for a trial, ask for disclosure and also a SLIM chance the cop might not show up.

I've seen threads on here, where it's written on the wall that the person posting was going to get banged to rights. But got off scott free.
Luck happens, mistakes happen. hope that helps

perryub wrote:
What offenses won't show up on my abstract and potentially harm my insurance premiums?


yes it will, depends on the conviction and also your insurance company, if your a long time customer, have multicar and house insurance, they SEEM to be a bit more forgiving.
If you get a conviction you loose your clean no claims, "possibly" your accident, and any job needing a "CLEAN" abstract

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* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:59 pm 
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There's not much lower you can go from 10km/h over the speed limit with a $40 fine and 0 demerit points.

Sometimes, for speeding tickets with higher rates of speed over the speed limit, when there are larger fines and more demerit points, an option would be to plead down to "disobey sign" which has 2 demerit points and the fine can go as low as $60. But this would not do any service for you since you already face a fairly low penalty.

You could try to investigate your local municipality's bylaws relating to signs and try to ask the prosecutor for you to plea guilty to a by-law charge. I have heard mixed results that a by-law charge could possibly find its way onto your driving record still, so tread with caution with this route.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Yes, as Whenaxis mentioned, you need to be very careful on bylaw plea deals.

Sometimes in the remote northern courts it is possible to make a charitable donation to a local charity in lieu of a conviction. St. Thomas used to do that over a decade ago but hasn't done that to my knowledge since.

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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:33 am 
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Who cares if you did it. They have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you did it.

Ask for the disclosure and see what evidence they have at all.

Just because you may have admitted it at the time, doesn't mean they have evidence that you ever did.

I would challenge it in court. They want to waste your time with a minuscule ticket like that, waste their money and send it to trial.

Maybe you can use the "De Minimis Non Curat Lex" defense.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:16 pm 
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They have no evidence of anything, aside from possibly the cop's word. I believe in the mantra of, "admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccuations".

My only fear - which may be unfounded - is that the cop says, "oh, I was just being a nice guy, you were actually doing 20 over..." and they amend the charges. I don't know if they do that, if they threaten to do that, or can't do that.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:54 pm 
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If you go to trial and the speed was already reduced by the officer at roadside, they will amend it back to the original speed.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:30 pm 
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So wouldn't I be able to call the cops credibility into question considering he swore a charge that wasn't true?


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Nope. Ontario Court of Apoeal has ruled that amending up a speeding ticket at trial is fine.
The officer gave you a break at the roadside. They didn't have to. I'm sure their evidence wouldstate what your original speed was.
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2 ... ca643.html


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:44 am 
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perryub wrote:
They have no evidence of anything, aside from possibly the cop's word


You're still relatively early in the stages of the charge. I think it's safe to assume no one has yet provided you with disclosure so you're doing a bit of assuming here.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:59 am 
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perryub wrote:
I believe in the mantra of, "admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccuations".


And I think we just found out why you got a 10 over ticket.

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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:15 am 
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perryub wrote:
They have no evidence of anything, aside from possibly the cop's word. I believe in the mantra of, "admit nothing, deny everything, make counteraccuations".



I believe in the Legal Advice 101 rule, which states: "Never say anything to the police."

Nothing you say to the police will benefit you; if anything, it will always be used against you.


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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:15 am 
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That may be true in many cases but often I have sought a second version to the story which has resulted in no charge being laid. If you say nothing the officer can only rely on the other person's version of events.

On top of that is the tactic I recommend to my friends: be friendly and apologise. Often that will get you a warning. Of course if you do get a ticket then you have dropped yourself in it but the vast majority of speeding tickets are lost at trial anyway so I think it's a better option to try and avoid the ticket in the first place.

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Re: Recommended charge to plea down to?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:27 pm 
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argyll wrote:
That may be true in many cases but often I have sought a second version to the story which has resulted in no charge being laid. If you say nothing the officer can only rely on the other person's version of events.

On top of that is the tactic I recommend to my friends: be friendly and apologise. Often that will get you a warning. Of course if you do get a ticket then you have dropped yourself in it but the vast majority of speeding tickets are lost at trial anyway so I think it's a better option to try and avoid the ticket in the first place.


Well that has helped too at times. I prefer to say, "I didn't realize I was going that fast."

But what I meant to clarify, is that it's unwise to acknowledge you did something unlawful; some people believe excuses are valid reasons to break the law.


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