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The Fast Lane
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:08 pm 
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Hello everyone,
I've been wondering about this for some time. Hopefully someone with more knowledge/experience with the HTA can provide some insight.

First, the sections on which my question are based:

Section 128 (Rate of speed)
128. (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle at a rate of speed greater than,
...
(f) the maximum rate of speed posted on a highway or portion of a highway ...


Section 147 (Slow vehicles to the right)
147. (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway

Given common sense and courtesy, s. 147 on its own definitely helps to maintain the flow of traffic. However, if one assumes that drivers are following the HTA in its entirety, everyone in the leftmost lane would be travelling at or below the posted speed limit.

My question: is a driver in the leftmost lane really violating the HTA when he is travelling at the maximum legal rate of speed, even if other drivers are intent on exceeding it? What would a police officer do in this situation; would he ticket the slow driver, or go after the speeders?

I do not in any way practice or condone this type of driving, I am just curious.


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:34 pm 
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In my opinion, it is a violation of HTA 148(2) if a driver does not move right when overtaken by another vehicle - regardless of vehicle speed.

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Yes, you must yield to faster vehicles. They may be committing an offence by speeding, but you're still committing an offence by not yielding. One doesn't cancel out the other.

As for what a police officer would, that would be entirely up to them. I personally would rather see lane hogs get a ticket versus someone going slightly over on the highway. That being said, with the general war on speed, I'm thinking the speeder is more likely to get the tag.


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:55 am 
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What if a hog is on the HOV? Can he be ticketed?


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:18 pm 
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There are probably signs posted prohibiting drivers from moving right in an HOV lane except in designated areas.

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:12 am 
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Allow me to shed some light on this:

http://www.drivers.com/article/149/

now, continue the conversation

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:36 pm 
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Squishy's reference to 148 (2) is this:

Quote:
Vehicles or equestrians overtaken

(2) Every person in charge of a vehicle or on horseback on a highway who is overtaken by a vehicle or equestrian travelling at a greater speed shall turn out to the right and allow the overtaking vehicle or equestrian to pass.


No reference to "speed limit" in there. In British Columbia, their version of the HTA does include wording to the effect that you must move to the right, unless you happen to be going the speed limit - but that's not the case in Ontario.

And then there's Germany and Switzerland, where simply driving anywhere but the right-most lane unless you are overtaking will earn you a one-way conversation with the Autobahn polizei.

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:11 am 
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Reflections wrote:
Allow me to shed some light on this:

http://www.drivers.com/article/149/

now, continue the conversation
that was interesting read especially Gordon Thompson's protest by driving at the limit, what does this say about the limit?

i don't believe we should have blanket speed limit, simply because Ontario/North-American drivers won't be able to handle it; if anything they need to pave a new road and force some graduated speed handling/manoeuvring licensing with certified cars (proper tires, brakes, maintenance etc) & plates and tolls to drive on that road ... how many times would i have to win Lotto Max to implement this?

now and again i drive exactly at the limit, just to gauge how drivers around me deal with it; some tailgate even though the left lane is wide-open to overtake, but i actually find a lot of drivers driving much slower than limit especially on highways with posted 100km/h limits

the war on speed is warranted especially with all these kids closing roads, and doing private races with honda go-karts

the only real place i see constant speed enforcement is on the 407, and you need to be driving 150+, that detachment ignores anything below 150


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:46 pm 
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What they'd need to do is look at "best practices" from around the world to improve driver and road safety. But that ain't cool...

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:09 pm 
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And get rid of the section that specifically allows passing on the right.

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:32 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
What they'd need to do is look at "best practices" from around the world to improve driver and road safety. But that ain't cool...

It's not that it ain't cool, it just won't get you re-elected!

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:25 pm 
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Squishy wrote:
And get rid of the section that specifically allows passing on the right.


Yes, they should... the only exceptions being:
- Car is turning left
- Car on the left is stopped
- Traffic speed is less than 60 km/h and the pass is made with less than a 20 km/h speed differential

(Yeah I got that from Germany... sorry.)

Reflections wrote:
It's not that it ain't cool, it just won't get you re-elected!


True for the most part... with these notable exceptions: If you're the current Premier, or possibly the MP from Scarborough-Agincourt, it ain't cool.

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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:05 pm 
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So the general consensus seems to be keep to the right unless passing, which I agree with. However I still think that the speed limit complicates things a bit. What if someone wants to obey the HTA but the right lane is traveling at (assume 400 series) 90? Could he be charged for passing them at 100 (assuming he is blocking in speeders)? I know he could definitely be charged for passing at 101 or more.

Also s148 is very confusing in the context of the whole HTA. It basically states that if someone behind you on a single lane road wants to speed then it is illegal to drive at the speed limit. So your options on single lane roads are basically:
1) Speed (violate 128)
2) Keep going (violate 148)
3) Pull over and wait for every speeder to pass
Option 3 is the only legal one, but that is unrealistic as you might be waiting for several hours in busy traffic. I think this section needs an exemption for motorists traveling at the speed limit (or section 128 needs to be removed) - but obviously we can't expect the current government to disassemble this elaborate tax scheme.


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:47 pm 
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I don't think you're interpreting section 148 correctly. It says pull out to the right, not pull over to the right. In other words assist in letting other vehicles pass by sharing the road.


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Re: The Fast Lane
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Stanton wrote:
I don't think you're interpreting section 148 correctly. It says pull out to the right, not pull over to the right. In other words assist in letting other vehicles pass by sharing the road.


Which, sadly in and around the GTA including the 401 to especially London, QEW to Niagara, etc, etc in my experience, no one ever does. The left lane is treated like any other lane and this makes it dangerous since impatient people start passing on the right and who can blame them when the people in the left lane are ignoring the law.

There REALLY needs to be a National Campaign on:

- How to PROPERLY merge onto a Highway (ie get up to speed of traffic in order NOT to cause gridlock)

- How to drive on the right side of the road (or middle lane on 3 lane roads) UNLESS you are passing, leave the left for passing and overall faster traffic if you are going slower.

Radio, TV, mail-outs, sh*t needs to happen, no one is obeying these simple concepts and its not just the usual suspects who you might think, its across the board no one remembers anything they read in their "book" before passing the learnings permit.

Everyone blames "volume" for all the gridlock but honestly more times than not it is the two simple things above that cause the gridlock, NOT volume (sure it doesnt help).

Yes, this is a bone of contention for me.


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