Use of 'centre' lane

Moderators: Reflections, admin, hwybear, Radar Identified, Decatur, bend

User avatar
Squishy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 709
Joined:
Location: Orillia
Contact:

Use of 'centre' lane

Unread post by Squishy on

I've read several posts here referring to an offence under the HTA for driving in the middle lane on a 400 series highway. I don't remember ever reading anything like that - does anyone know the section?

The closest I can find is Section 154, but that seems to refer to the case where the entire highway is divided into three lanes (i.e., both directions) and the 'centre lane' in this case would be either the turn lanes marked with yellow lines, or something like Jarvis St. in Toronto where the centre lane changes direction based on traffic volume.
         Image


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined:
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

Unread post by hwybear on

Think you have to break the section down..

154 b) in the case of a highway that is divided into three lanes, a vehicle shall not be driven in the centre lane except

- when overtaking and passing another vehicle where the roadway is clearly visible and the centre lane is clear of traffic within a reasonable safe distance,
- OR in preparation for a left turn,
- OR where the centre lane is at the time designated for the use of traffic moving in the direction in which the vehicle is proceeding and official signs are erected to indicate the designation

I believe it is another poorly worded part of the HTA. The last point technically could be used on the 400 series, b/c there are NO "official signs" erected to designate that lane.

Quite possibly the intent of the section is for an actual "3 lane highway" (one lane WB, one centre lane, one lane EB) where the centre lane is often used for turning movements OR passing on steep hills (I have seen designated signs in Northern Ontario for the use of the centre lane)

Bottom line, will it be enforced, I don't think you will ever see that happen on a 400 series highway.

Would rather think the section to move into the right lane when being overtaken would apply. If the vehicle in the centre lane gets passed on the right, then there obviously is an opportunity (for that centre lane vehicle)to be driving one more lane to the right.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


User avatar
Squishy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 709
Joined:
Location: Orillia
Contact:

Unread post by Squishy on

In the case of the 400-series highways, are they considered a six-lane highway or a three-lane highway? Does the centre median split the two directions into separate highways? If it is considered a six-lane (or twelve+ inside Toronto) highway, then Section 154 wouldn't apply at all.

I agree that it will likely never be enforced on the 400-series. I would like to see the 'move right when overtaken' rule enforced though.

Section 154 looks like it makes passing using the centre turn lane legal, as long as it is clear of traffic. I don't think I have ever seen that done - in fact, it seems like something that would get you pulled over.
         Image


User avatar
Bookm
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 632
Joined:
Location: Stratford, Ontario

Unread post by Bookm on

Slow vehicles to travel on right side

147. (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).

Exception

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a driver of a,

(a) vehicle while overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(b) vehicle while preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or

(c) road service vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (2).
I think it's important to note that this section does not say, "less then the Speed Limit". The "normal" flow of traffic may very well (and probably is) faster than the speed limit.


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined:
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

Unread post by hwybear on

Bookm wrote:
Slow vehicles to travel on right side

147. (1) Any vehicle travelling upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at that time and place shall, where practicable, be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right hand curb or edge of the roadway. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (1).

Exception

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a driver of a,

(a) vehicle while overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction;

(b) vehicle while preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway; or

(c) road service vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 147 (2).
I think it's important to note that this section does not say, "less then the Speed Limit". The "normal" flow of traffic may very well (and probably is) faster than the speed limit.
I get what your saying, but now the flip side....police start laying that...and the JP will toss it faster than the ink can dry....they will say it is the speed limit not the "flow".........now another flip drivers defence....I was going with the normal flow in the lane I was travelling in.....and the JP will toss it as well....

another section of the HTA that needs re-wording.....maybe ....If you are not passing, drivers must keep to the right most lane....or be like some states....within minimum speeds in each lane (left and centre)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


User avatar
Squishy
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 709
Joined:
Location: Orillia
Contact:

Unread post by Squishy on

hwybear wrote:...

If you are not passing, drivers must keep to the right most lane....or be like some states....within minimum speeds in each lane (left and centre)

...
Really? I like that. Has a charge like that ever been laid and held up in court?

From reading sections 147 and 148(2), I was under the impression that it was legal in Ontario to drive wherever you want if you were going faster than traffic (passing everyone) or you were matching the speed of traffic exactly (no one passing you). Drivers not keeping right is a pet peeve of mine.
         Image


User avatar
Bookm
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 632
Joined:
Location: Stratford, Ontario

Unread post by Bookm on

I updated my Drivers Ed a couple years ago (the only 40-something in a class full of 16-yr.olds, LOL) and was miffed to learn that they STILL teach newbs to drive in the "lane of least resistance". They treat all lanes as equals.

I think it would take a massive media effort to get this country to appreciate the safety benefits of the same lane etiquette laws that have been practiced in Germany forever.

I'd really like to see Cam Woolley do multiple public educational TV spots devoted to just this one aspect of highway driving. Julian Fantino would be even better, but he's way too focused on speeders and kids pealin' out right now to be of any real use on this particular problem.


tdrive2
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 346
Joined:

Unread post by tdrive2 on

No body follows the rules. The 401 is retarded.

Everyone stays in the 2 left lanes. Some goof ball is always trying to do 110 in the left lane with a line of angry tail gaters behind him. No one travels in the left lane. So all the people who want to do over 130 just weave in and out of traffic or tailgate.

The only driving lane is the right lane on the road. Pass and move over. If your not passing move over. I think its the biggest problem on our highways is people causing traffic jams.

This always happens. Last week at night i was driving the 2 left most lanes were clogged. There must have been a line of 15-20 cars tailgating some goofball in a pickup truck and a trailer. So once everyone had to pass him on the right you see a ton of open road while this guy causes a massive traffic jam and creating road rage making it dangerous for everyone.

I really hope officers pay attention to this to. I have seen some VERY dangerous situations and it happens way more than all the 50 over speeders. Some people get very angry when this happens. Some of them will do anything to pass weave in and out of multiple lanes. It scares me. Always mover over. I really hope officers look for this to out there.


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined:
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

Unread post by hwybear on

tdrive2 wrote:I really hope officers pay attention to this to. I have seen some VERY dangerous situations and it happens way more than all the 50 over speeders. Some people get very angry when this happens. Some of them will do anything to pass weave in and out of multiple lanes. It scares me. Always mover over. I really hope officers look for this to out there.
It would be nice to have actual "traffic cars" (not unmarked crown vic, impala with antennas sticking up). Ones that resemble every day citizen vehicles to combat this. To the most part it is nearly impossible to combat these types of things with a full marked car. People see the cruiser and start to drive like "angels", soon as they are out of sight...here comes the :twisted: again!!

I remember driving a "traffic car" about 6 yrs ago.....it was amazing, follow too close tickets every shift, got passed on the paved shoulder, etc...

Banning vehicles towing any trailers from the left lane would also help.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


User avatar
racer
VIP
VIP
Posts: 959
Joined:
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Contact:

Unread post by racer on

hwybear wrote:It would be nice to have actual "traffic cars" (not unmarked crown vic, impala with antennas sticking up). Ones that resemble every day citizen vehicles to combat this.
Here's where that Civic/Corolla would come in handy for the force, eh?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


tdrive2
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 346
Joined:

Unread post by tdrive2 on

Good ideas, so would a more realistic speed limit. Enforcement of the move over law.

And one we should have is Massive Signs on Bridges and over pass that say in huge letters like the 50 over signs.

" SLOWER TRAFFIC MOVE RIGHT."
" MOVE RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS."

Unfortunately as i said a while back now we are screwing with transports putting them to 105. This will surely mess with the flow of traffic. Now no body will go in the right lane. Everyone is gonna be in the left lanes.

SO youll have slower drivers on the left with the faster ones. The faster ones will tailgate and weave.

The slower ones will piss people off and create traffic jams and lines of tailgaters.


tdrive2
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 346
Joined:

Unread post by tdrive2 on

Tailgating will never end on our highways nor will aggressive driving. The province does not understand cause and effect. Like i said lets look at aggressive driving, tailgating, cutting people off, and passing on the right. Surely big problems. What would the province do. More fines. More cops. more money more resources.

They lowered the speed limit. They raised the fines. And they got rid of all the move over to the right signs.

What happened. Some people drove slower. Some drivers drive the speed limit in the left lane. The rest of the traffic all wants to go faster. They get angry they get annoyed.

Other drivers got mad. They stopped believing in the government. They got upset, they drove faster despite the new laws. This is what most seem to do. They vote with their right foot. The speed of the flow of traffic says other wise.

What do they do when people slow them down? They tailgate, pass on the right, cut someone off, or weave through traffic to pass one person.

New laws wont stop this. Nor will stealing your car or fining you 10 000 dollars. The fact will never change that the cause of the aggressive behavior was an improper use of lanes.

We could spend a whole bunch of money on enforcement and laws and the rest. Or we could buy some paint and put the limit back up to 115 and 120 and put some big signs on the road that tells slower traffic to move over.

There's lots of cheaper common sense ways to improve safety. How about those wood and steel barriers on the 403 and QEW. I sure as hell would not want to see a transport plow through that. We should also get rid of those ending right lanes. Those are dangerous when everyone tries to enter at the last minute.

It's amazing what some paint and signs could accomplish. Maybee if people saw a system they saw as more fair and realistic they would beleive in it and more people would believe in it and follow the rules.

If driving to close on the highway is more than 2 cars length. I rarely see this in the GTA in rush hour. You could give every car a ticket for driving to close.


User avatar
racer
VIP
VIP
Posts: 959
Joined:
Location: Guelph, Ontario
Contact:

Unread post by racer on

We've already discussed the fact that right about any driver in GTA should loose their license based on the definition of "Careless Driving" in one single day...
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


User avatar
Radar Identified
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2881
Joined:
Location: Toronto

Moderator

Unread post by Radar Identified on

Actually driving home after midnight for the past couple of weeks (I work in a weird industry), the electronic signs on the DVP have said in big block letters:

KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS.

I was stunned to see exactly those words used, too, but, there it was. If only they'd use it everywhere... Even Cam Woolley admits that Ontario (the GTA specifically) has the worst lane discipline anywhere. It's amazing. If the road is more than two lanes in the same direction, I'm usually one of only 10% of drivers using the right lane.


tdrive2
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 346
Joined:

Unread post by tdrive2 on

He is right. The 401 through Toronto is a mess to in some of those sections. Where the collectors and the express mix up around 427, blackcreek drive, and the 400 merge, along with the dvp merge. Talk about an absolute mess.

The fast lane of the collectors is merging with the slow lane of the express. People all over the place changing lanes at the last minute. That is one worst roads. The 401 through Toronto is getting really beat up with massive pot holes and chunks of road missing.






Post Reply

Return to “General Talk”