Very close to an 11b actually, under the new guidelines, my court date will be 10 months and 25 days from the offense date, which I understand might have even been considered but I did not realize this until now, so don't have 15 days before court to file for it. So back in June I went for an early resolution meeting after getting a notice for it, and they wanted to lower the fine and I wanted a parking ticket instead of this sticker ticket due to the insurance implications. Even though this technically should NOT count as a moving violation (you could get this ticket parked on street) it is a ticket and almost for sure will count against me when the insurance crooks notice it. So we did not come to agreement, hence now I have to go to court. So I did not file for disclosure, I got caught up in another things and kind of forgot about this ticket. It would seem my only hope now is that the Officer does not show up, and I have just a couple questions about this: - If the Officer does not show up, what exactly is going to happen, and when? It sounds like at the beginning of the trial, they will withdraw charges for anyone who has a ticket and the officer is not present for minor things (rather than adjourn), BUT I have seen people say they will try to get you to plead guilty FIRST, before even admitting that the officer is not there. If you are just pleading guilty anyway, likely the officer does not even need to be there? This is why I am concerned about the timing of when cases are getting withdrawn, and when they are going to arraign you etc. - It sounds like before court they will normally ask you how you are going to plea, so here if you say guilty, and Officer is not there, they likely go ahead with it anyway? - I am likely planning to just plead guilty IF the Officer is there, so I am thinking I will tell them I am going to plead not guilty, then when court starts will just hope Officer is not there and it gets thrown out. If he is there, I guess when they arraign me at that time I can just plead guilty correct? TIA p.s - If it is a different Prosecutor, can I approach them (would be 2nd attempt) before court to see if they are willing to make a deal?
Very close to an 11b actually, under the new guidelines, my court date will be 10 months and 25 days from the offense date, which I understand might have even been considered but I did not realize this until now, so don't have 15 days before court to file for it.
So back in June I went for an early resolution meeting after getting a notice for it, and they wanted to lower the fine and I wanted a parking ticket instead of this sticker ticket due to the insurance implications. Even though this technically should NOT count as a moving violation (you could get this ticket parked on street) it is a ticket and almost for sure will count against me when the insurance crooks notice it. So we did not come to agreement, hence now I have to go to court.
So I did not file for disclosure, I got caught up in another things and kind of forgot about this ticket. It would seem my only hope now is that the Officer does not show up, and I have just a couple questions about this:
- If the Officer does not show up, what exactly is going to happen, and when? It sounds like at the beginning of the trial, they will withdraw charges for anyone who has a ticket and the officer is not present for minor things (rather than adjourn), BUT I have seen people say they will try to get you to plead guilty FIRST, before even admitting that the officer is not there. If you are just pleading guilty anyway, likely the officer does not even need to be there? This is why I am concerned about the timing of when cases are getting withdrawn, and when they are going to arraign you etc.
- It sounds like before court they will normally ask you how you are going to plea, so here if you say guilty, and Officer is not there, they likely go ahead with it anyway?
- I am likely planning to just plead guilty IF the Officer is there, so I am thinking I will tell them I am going to plead not guilty, then when court starts will just hope Officer is not there and it gets thrown out. If he is there, I guess when they arraign me at that time I can just plead guilty correct?
TIA
p.s - If it is a different Prosecutor, can I approach them (would be 2nd attempt) before court to see if they are willing to make a deal?
First of all that isn't correct. The charge is "drive motor vehicle- no currently validated permit" and therefore doesn't apply to parked vehicles. Also, it is not a "moving" violation and there are no demerit points attached... with that considered most insurance companies count convictions, not demerit points. Also, a large number of insurance employees frequent the boards and make a great contribution to this site, so perhaps referring to them as crooks isn't a great idea (hard to image why you haven't received any replies to your thread yet.......) Anyhow- In Toronto, in my experience, if the officer is not there- whether you make a deal for a plea, plead guilty, plead not guilty, plead insanity- if the officer isn't there, your charge is withdrawn. Therefore tell the prosecutor you will plead guilty and hopefully they will offer a reduced fine (they will). You don't need to push and prod about whether the officer is there- if he isn't your charge will be withdrawn.
jayjonbeach wrote:
Even though this technically should NOT count as a moving violation (you could get this ticket parked on street)
First of all that isn't correct. The charge is "drive motor vehicle- no currently validated permit" and therefore doesn't apply to parked vehicles.
Also, it is not a "moving" violation and there are no demerit points attached... with that considered most insurance companies count convictions, not demerit points.
Also, a large number of insurance employees frequent the boards and make a great contribution to this site, so perhaps referring to them as crooks isn't a great idea (hard to image why you haven't received any replies to your thread yet.......)
Anyhow-
In Toronto, in my experience, if the officer is not there- whether you make a deal for a plea, plead guilty, plead not guilty, plead insanity- if the officer isn't there, your charge is withdrawn.
Therefore tell the prosecutor you will plead guilty and hopefully they will offer a reduced fine (they will). You don't need to push and prod about whether the officer is there- if he isn't your charge will be withdrawn.
No, I am not the chief of Toronto Police.
No, I do not work for Toronto Police...
... it is just a name folks
This whole "the officer is not going to show up" thing is completely overrated. He is going to be there almost always. He cannot simply just not show up. You won't know if the officer is there unless he is standing next to you and you can pick him out of the other officers who may also be in the court room. Sometimes they sit around in the court room beginning to end. Sometimes they just show up what before they are needed and are wandering the building doing whatever they are doing. As for the prosecutor letting you know whether or not the officer is there, he/she doesn't need to do so. Your plea doesn't require the officer to be there. He is only required for your trial. Therefore, you can make a plea and not know whether or not the officer is even there to begin with. Yes, sometimes they'll just get your name and tell you to sit down and drop the whole case, but it depends on the prosecutor. Some will go on with the charade until you are willing to go ahead with a trial. Usually you'll go up and tell them your name. They'll look at your charge and offer you the standard reduced fine for it, whether you've done this previously or not. They'll then ask you how you want to plea. You can either refuse and go to trial or accept their offer. If the officer is not there, they might still do all this or they might just tell you to sit down until they can bring you back up and let you off free.
This whole "the officer is not going to show up" thing is completely overrated. He is going to be there almost always. He cannot simply just not show up.
You won't know if the officer is there unless he is standing next to you and you can pick him out of the other officers who may also be in the court room. Sometimes they sit around in the court room beginning to end. Sometimes they just show up what before they are needed and are wandering the building doing whatever they are doing.
As for the prosecutor letting you know whether or not the officer is there, he/she doesn't need to do so. Your plea doesn't require the officer to be there. He is only required for your trial. Therefore, you can make a plea and not know whether or not the officer is even there to begin with. Yes, sometimes they'll just get your name and tell you to sit down and drop the whole case, but it depends on the prosecutor. Some will go on with the charade until you are willing to go ahead with a trial.
Usually you'll go up and tell them your name. They'll look at your charge and offer you the standard reduced fine for it, whether you've done this previously or not. They'll then ask you how you want to plea. You can either refuse and go to trial or accept their offer. If the officer is not there, they might still do all this or they might just tell you to sit down until they can bring you back up and let you off free.
I searched but could not retrieve a satisfactory answer.
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