Recently disappointed in two officers - Story and questions

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10e
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Recently disappointed in two officers - Story and questions

by: 10e on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:16 pm

Hey all,

Sorry if this has been covered, but I searched and didn't find anything.

Just thought I'd share my recent experience.

Last Friday I was driving myself and my wife home from a nice dinner date in Markham/Richmond Hill north of T-DOT, and I had two (what looked like) ETF officers "tail" me home and park on my driveway.

I had been driving southbound and reached a red light stopped in the right lane. There was a black and blacked out Suburban sitting next to me at the red light. I proceeded to accelerate fairly briskly to the speed limit, checked my mirrors, signalled and changed lanes into the left lane.

There's a mall on the right side of this street and people are notorious for slamming on their brakes to enter the driveway and I try to avoid it as a safety precaution. Once I passed the driveway I signalled and moved back to the right lane, then into the right turn lane and into my side street.

I was shocked by that same big black Suburban tailing me not even a car length behind, with just bright headlights filling my rearview. There were no "cherries" or red/blue lights flashing, noises or sirens that I could see.

Once I parked in my driveway they also entered it and then I became concerned/scared. Two small red lights flashed once from the hood, when I was taking off my seatbelt, as I was now very wary.

The black SUV/Suburban was unmarked. Out two guys in bullet proof vests jumped out, did NOT id themselves and asked me for licence and reg. I gave it to them after seeing what looked like a computer in the SUV, thinking "they should be police, right?"

I did not (mistakenly) think of asking their badges to appear. It was dark so maybe they were in plain sight but I couldn't see them.

They proceeded to go back into the SUV, check my papers/licence and start screaming at me and accusing me of stunt driving.

I know what that law explains and I was 100% sure that I had not done anything like that.

I asked them what that was, playing dumb. Ask my wife, I'm good at that :)

I may have hit 80km/hr in the short span from that red light to my street, but even my stock WRX can't hit that speed in the total 100m distance from the light to the side street unless I drop the clutch at 5000 RPM and floor it.

They proceeded to berate me and tell me that they can take my car and licence for seven days, and that I can't do 100 km/hr on that street, which was extremely unlikely. I admitted nothing, but when I offered the licence and car to them peacefully, they became angry, saying I cut them off, which I apologized for, saying "if I cut you off, I'm sorry". I hadn't, but I didn't want to "push my luck". They also shouted that I almost crushed another car, which was untrue. When I asked them which car, they just shouted that I am arguing with them and not showing remorse. Fairly confusing to say the least.

They then said they would give me a caution and put it on my previously clean driving record, and that they were going to give me a break because of that. I thanked them and wished them a good night.

I laughed about it 5 minutes later, but it still concerned me a bit.

I'm usually not a big speeder, drive slowly in residential/school areas, turn on my lights in inclement weather so my taillights can be seen, and I've even reported suspicious behavior on the road to the police (who then called me as a witness for two guys that stole a car and caused two accidents.)

I hadn't been stopped by police in over 8 years, which was the last time I was caught speeding (15 over).

I guess my question is:

1) Can they put a "note" on my record saying I was stopped, even without charging me?
2) If so can this be reviewed by another police officer, or my insurance company later?
3) If they are in an unmarked vehicle and didn't identify themselves, would this be considered proper protocol, especially considering they parked on private property (my driveway).

Anyway, any advice is appreciated and just thought I'd share. Sorry if it was a bit "wordy".

Thanks!


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by: OPS Copper on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:08 pm

Question 1: Yes

question 2: Yes can be seen by any TPS members but that is it. Not seen by insurance. Just an in house record

question 3:You seemed to know they were police so that is goo enough. Not sure where there is a written protcol on stopping a car. Yet you are the second person say that there is. As for pvt property. There were there for a legal stop. That is all that is required. IF it was other wise we would have no one stop on the road and turn onto private property to get away.

ops


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by: Bookm on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:24 pm

Remember when you were 6 and there was always that 1 or 2 kids in the sandbox that you tried not to annoy because you KNEW they were likely to throw sand in your face? Ya, well some thing's never change ;)

Unfortunately, they DO have the right to impound and make your life miserable just because you accelerate faster than a normal rate. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to bite my tongue when I get stopped for it ;) I probably fill 3 pages of warning alerts.

You're never going to hear from them again.
OPS Copper wrote:As for pvt property. There were there for a legal stop. That is all that is required. IF it was other wise we would have no one stop on the road and turn onto private property to get away. ops
You might be right, but I thought the stop had to be "initiated" on the public highway (lights activated). I didn't think you could drive on to someones property and THEN flick on the cherries and commence with the demand for drivers license. This sticks in my mind from years ago... Might have even been an American site I was on.
Last edited by Bookm on Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.


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by: FyreStorm on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 4:52 pm

You might be right, but I thought the stop had to be "initiated" on the public highway (lights activated). I didn't think you could drive on to someones property and THEN flick on the cherries and commence with the demand for drivers license. This sticks in my mind from years ago... Might have even been an American site I was on.
The traffic stop can be initiated anywhere so long as the offence was witnessed on public roads...makes more sense sometimes to stop in a driveway, they can't run very far.

Insofar as your driving is concerned, sure sounds like they had a good reason to stop you.

0-80km/h in 100m? That's just plain...


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by: FiReSTaRT on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:00 pm

For some vehicles, accelerating 0-80 in 100m isn't that difficult. I accelerate up to 100 in a heck of a lot less than that on certain badly engineered on-ramps :twisted:
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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by: FyreStorm on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:14 pm

Not that it's difficult, but remember, squeaky wheels get the grease? Spin your tires by driving aggressively = stunt driving.

If you drive in a manner that shouts 'aggressive' expect people (police) to notice.

Take it to court.


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by: 10e on
Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:50 pm

OPS Copper Thanks a lot for the info. I've been stopped/pulled over five times in 17 years including 2 speeding tickets, two RIDE breathalyzers,a and now this time, so I guess I'll report back if being pulled over frequency goes up.

BookM These were young ETF guys probably in their mid 20's or early 30s. I think they just get off on screaming at people. They seemed to calm down once they figured I was pushing 40. My wife and I look younger though, which in this case may have been an issue. You're right though. Just a chance thing.

FiReSTaRT Those are "well engineered" off-ramps ;)

FyreStorm No ticket, no harm, no foul. I never squealed tires, cut anyone off, or sped excessively or any other items contained in the stunt driving rules. Wife gets motion sickness on rapid acceleration, and she didn't say a thing. The road limit is 70km/hr so even if I actually hit 80 it wasn't some heinous crime as they said. It really felt like a couple of ETF guys playing psyche games with me.

It was weird that they spent all that time shouting and confronting me, only to drive off without so much as a ticket. My two speeding tickets arrived with a lot less fanfare than my "no ticket" incident.

I've known a couple of ETF guys over the years and they are definitely a different breed than your normal traffic cop..


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by: FyreStorm on
Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:04 am

Wife gets motion sickness on rapid acceleration, and she didn't say a thing.
That's not exactly a reliable measurement....LOL...

Well I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to say anything else based on one side, would be interesting to hear from the officers...

...

...

Ok, I guess they aren't on this website...

Glad you dodged a biscuit.


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by: Marquisse on
Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:18 am

LOL, I'd figure they were either black ops, cops, or Tony Soprano.

Either way, if they followed me to my driveway I'd be on the phone with 911 and freaking out. As a woman, every single nightmare story about the Bundys, Ridgeways, and Bernardos of this world flood the brain when freaky stuff like that happens. That is just not normal stuff for Joe/Jane Citizen to deal with.

Again, neither is 80km acceleration, unless you were doing it to run from them, lol!


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by: FiReSTaRT on
Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:36 am

Tires can squeal for any reason even if you don't accelerate rapidly.. Cold pavement, hard tire compound, p/u truck with an empty bed.. It scares the living [censored] outta me that I could get 172'd for any one of those reasons. I hope that the crook, the killer and our whole provincial parliament get what they deserve for pushing Bill 203 on us.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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by: Marquisse on
Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:30 am

Yes, it sounds incredibly backwards to have the squealing of tires qualify, solely.


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by: FyreStorm on
Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:49 pm

I don't think any JP will convict for a 1 second of squealing, that can be as you all described above, VS the guy who lays a 100 m long patch leaving the Tim's while his buddies cheers him on.


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by: FiReSTaRT on
Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:07 pm

I don't think any JP will convict for a 1 second of squealing, that can be as you all described above, VS the guy who lays a 100 m long patch leaving the Tim's while his buddies cheers him on.
That may be true, but if the constable decides to charge me, that's still over $1000 in towing and impound in addition to 1 week of not being able to get to work before the JP throws the case where it belongs :twisted:
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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by: hwybear on
Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:01 am

FyreStorm wrote:I don't think any JP will convict for a 1 second of squealing, that can be as you all described above, VS the guy who lays a 100 m long patch leaving the Tim's while his buddies cheers him on.
That would be utterly stupid....everyone knows we are always there :wink: :lol:
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: FiReSTaRT on
Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:22 am

And even if it makes it to a JP, remember that they have no education/work experience requirements.. It's a purely political appointment, with minimal training. An innocent person can still get convicted.
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


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