Drive Motor Vehicle "No Permit"

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Hankthetank93
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Drive Motor Vehicle "No Permit"

by: Hankthetank93 on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:59 pm

Hi all, have been browsing the forums for a while and have found lots of good information and thought I would run a recent problem by you all.

Two days ago I was pulled over for what I thought was absolutely no reason, the officer (I'll refer to the officer as X) pulls me over and X said they saw me do an incomplete stop on a red light (right turn) which I'm pretty confident is not true because there was a car in front of me stopped ahead of the line. So from this intersection X said they saw me at to where I was pulled over was 1.5 KM between (why wasn't I pulled over when the officer saw me make this so called incomplete stop, X was behind me the whole way from when I turned out obviously running my plates or something)

So anyways, when I'm pulled over I get asked for insurance and ownership, insurance I have on my phone which is fine and my ownership is nowhere to be found, not sure if the dealer forgot to give it to me or if I lost it (I just picked up the brand new truck a day prior). So I say I must have lost it and offer X the bill of sale with my name on it, X says it's okay, I believe you because the vehicle is insured.

The officer walks back to the car and comes back with a ticket for Drive Motor Vehicle "No Permit" and tells me that I had a "public complaint of dangerous driving on my record"

So my thinking is the stop at a red light was a cover up for pulling someone over for no reason and the reason I want to post this is to ask if I can be charged with the "fail to make a complete stop" in court if I try to fight the permit ticket?

My driving record is clean minus a small speeding ticket that comes off my record in Feb.


argyll
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by: argyll on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:48 pm

Failure to provide permit on demand is pretty much impossible to defend. If you didn't produce the document on demand the offence is made out.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


jsherk
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by: jsherk on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:16 pm

No they can not charge you with anything else in court if you decide to fight the current ticket.

However the officer has 6 months to decide if he wants to charge you with anything else and to serve you the ticket. That said, I have never heard of anybody that has gotten a second ticket after deciding to fight the first ticket. You can not be punished for exercising your right to fight a ticket, so if you decide to fight it and then received another ticket, this would be good reason to fight the second one.

And the only way to beat the fail to provide permit ticket is if the officer does not show up to court, which does not happen very often.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


Hankthetank93
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by: Hankthetank93 on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:27 pm

jsherk wrote:No they can not charge you with anything else in court if you decide to fight the current ticket.

However the officer has 6 months to decide if he wants to charge you with anything else and to serve you the ticket. That said, I have never heard of anybody that has gotten a second ticket after deciding to fight the first ticket. You can not be punished for exercising your right to fight a ticket, so if you decide to fight it and then received another ticket, this would be good reason to fight the second one.

And the only way to beat the fail to provide permit ticket is if the officer does not show up to court, which does not happen very often.
Really!? I've heard many people say they can bring up the ticket they dropped and charge you with it in court. I guess thats a rumor.
argyll wrote:Failure to provide permit on demand is pretty much impossible to defend. If you didn't produce the document on demand the offence is made out.
Thanks for the help, was figuring I'd just try to fight it seeing as though I got nothing to lose.

Does anyone know if this ticket effects my insurance? Only real reason I care to fight it and there seems to be mixed reviews online.


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Decatur
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by: Decatur on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:18 pm

And having your insurance "on your phone" isnt any good either. You have to produce either a,valid insurance policy or the pink insurance card. The officer can't take your phone back to their car....


Hankthetank93
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by: Hankthetank93 on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:52 pm

Decatur wrote:And having your insurance "on your phone" isnt any good either. You have to produce either a,valid insurance policy or the pink insurance card. The officer can't take your phone back to their car....
It was acceptable because it was a new insurance policy and it takes time to get the slip in the mail. I suppose I could have printed it but the officer said it was okay.


jsherk
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by: jsherk on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:43 pm

The officer COULD also have given you a ticket for failing to produce insurance card, since you technically did not produce it.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


argyll
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by: argyll on
Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:13 pm

I've never seen a dropped charge being introduced in court when a driver was fighting an issued charge. I think a JP would have some pretty strong opinions on that !
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !




argyll
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by: argyll on
Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:35 pm

Sadly yes, which is a travesty. But the insurance companies can pretty much do what they want. To say a history of speeding is the same risk as a history of not having a piece of paper with you is just nonsense.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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bobajob
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by: bobajob on
Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:53 pm

think it really depends, my insurer didnt worry too much about a no uturn ticket, I took a VERY small hit, would have been greater if it was speeding (they said)
--------------------------------------------------------------
* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail




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by: OTD Legal on
Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:19 pm

jsherk wrote:Only way to know exactly how it will affect your insurance is to ask them. Every insurance company is different.
I recall a poster not too long ago who had a previously clean record with a recent conviction for some minor 0 demerit point offence along the lines of a permit or fail to surrender ticket. He reported a 5% (?) increase or there abouts. The insurance industry is not uniform. Checking with your broker will always be your best, most accurate source of information. The insurance industry is also a competitive market for your business where it may not hurt to seek out alternate insurance quotes.
The content of this post is not legal advice. Legal advice can only be provided after a licenced paralegal has been retained, spoken with you directly, and reviewed the documents related to your case.


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