Dealership licence plate holders

hi, i have recently been pulled over by a local Arnprior opp and his reasons were for tint on my front windows (i would say borderline to dark) and his main reason was my licence plate cover. now what do i have for a licence plate cover? the cover on my plate is from a dodge dealership in Ottawa (Capital Dodge) i see them everywhere they are a clear cover with the dealerships advertising on the top and bottom covering the same amount of the plate as all dealerships licence plate frames. the only difference is that since i work for a different dealer i taped off the entire clear part of the plate and painted over that part that was already covered by the dealerships name and number (red to match my truck) the officer was completely okay with the idea of a clear cover but said the red on it was an obstruction of my plate. i tried to explain that it does not cover anymore of the plate than any standard car dealers licence plate frame but he refused to believe that. the officer did not write me a ticket but said next time he sees me in town i will get one for it. does this mean that every vehicle sold from new car dealerships with a plate frame is leaving illegally? is my cover illegal? or is the cop just picking on me? i have a long history of criminal and traffic offences and recently got my licence back but my driving record will be 100% clear of charges for 3 years in September and i dont need dumb tickets for things like this on my record as iv been looking forward to my insurance rates going back to normal. anyone else ever dealt with anything like this before? thanks in advance

kavemanthecarman wrote:

hi, i have recently been pulled over by a local Arnprior opp and his reasons were for tint on my front windows (i would say borderline to dark)

There's no law that specifies tint percentages in Ontario. If the officer says it's too dark, it's too dark. Take that into consideration for the future.

kavemanthecarman wrote:

does this mean that every vehicle sold from new car dealerships with a plate frame is leaving illegally? is my cover illegal?

Highway Traffic Act 13 (2)

(2) Every number plate shall be kept free from dirt and obstruction and shall be affixed so that the entire number plate, including the numbers, is plainly visible at all times, and the view of the number plate shall not be obscured or obstructed by spare tires, bumper bars, any part of the vehicle, any attachments to the vehicle or the load carried. 1994, c. 27, s. 138 (7).

so reading that it seems even dealership licence plate frames are illegal.

and about the tint i have looked up the law and have concluded my tint is not illegal my 2 front windows are light tint, the law says the front windows to the left and right of the driver must be free from obstruction, as they are light tint. the interior of the vehicle may appear to be obstructed at first glance due to the lack of light entering because of the dark tint on the entire rear of the vehicle and a dark sun shade at the top of the windshield and the dark interior i have since asked others to look at the vehicle during daytime. each and every person agrees they can see me and a passenger clearly and that the tint does not obstruct the view from the outside. as the evening goes on and the outside light is reduced the amount of light able to enter the cab of the truck making the interior appear somewhat obstructed but the fact is that the rear windows and the top of the windshield are the cause of this not the light tint on the front windows, i will not remove the tint as i feel it is within my rights to have and i will take the ticket to court along with pictures and examples of tinted glass to prove it is not my front windows causing the obstruction it is my rear and windshield causing this effect and the law has no restriction on the rear windows or for a sunshade on the windshield.

More info on the subject here http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic745.html

Read section 73 carefully: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statut ... .htm#BK130

Unfortunately, this is one of the many poorly written sections of the HTA. In the U.S. they actually have tint measuring devices; in Ontario it's the officer's discretion as to whether the tint is too dark, not yours, your friends or the body-shop that applied the tint.

You'll be wasting your time bringing pictures to court; if the officer testifies under oath he could not see you, you'll be found guilty. If you're regularly driving through areas where police have problems with tint/plate-covers; they'll have no problems charging you again and again until you remedy the problem.

Normally in the urban areas, police are way too busy to bother with equipment offences; but in rural OPP country, they'll be looking for anything under the sun.

Dealer plate covers are illegal, the officer gave you fair warning to remove it. Normally, they don't even do that.

as for the plate cover i did already state that it seems that they are in fact illegal and i will be removing it tomorrow when i bring the truck inside for a wash.

on the issue of the tint, the law covers all of Ontario i have done some research and found that in some places in Ontario, Kingston for example since the law is so poorly written they have gone to using a tint reader anything that allows less than 70% light pass through is what they are saying is their guideline instead of leaving it up to opinion. well thats exactly what i have on my front windows its 30% tint that means it allows 70% to pass through. in dark conditions it looks dark because the 5% tint on the top of my windshield and entire rear of my vehicle blocks almost all of the light to enter the vehicle. i could have no tint on my front windows and in evening and cloudy conditions such as the time i was stopped at its going to be harder to see in. but my front side windows to the right and left of myself are not obstructed. at the time the officer was stopped directly across me before pulling out behind me and i could not tell if it was a male or female officer in the vehicle due to the factory tint on the rear half and a factory sun strip on the top of the windshield on the new fleet of ford explorers. i think the officer had originally pulled me over because of the parking lot i pulled out of, there is a bar there but when he realized the vehicle was full of groceries from the store in the same parking lot he was just looking for something he could use to justify the stop.

http://www.thewhig.com/2013/07/03/polic ... ed-windows

You'd better read the article again. The use of the tint meter is simply as a guideline. Ontario law trumps any reading that may be on the meter. It's all situational and depends on the officers articulation. For example: If I can't see in and tell whether the person is wearing a seatbelt or may be on a phone , it's too dark. Including at night and in poor visibility conditions.

kavemanthecarman wrote:

as for the plate cover i did already state that it seems that they are in fact illegal and i will be removing it tomorrow when i bring the truck inside for a wash.

on the issue of the tint, the law covers all of Ontario i have done some research and found that in some places in Ontario, Kingston for example since the law is so poorly written they have gone to using a tint reader anything that allows less than 70% light pass through is what they are saying is their guideline instead of leaving it up to opinion.

That's not the law and no officer is handcuffed to that, even in Kingston. Even if you were charged in Kingston, whether or not they've got a voluntary program where they've decided 70% is the limit is irrelevant.

kavemanthecarman wrote:

i think the officer had originally pulled me over because of the parking lot i pulled out of, there is a bar there but when he realized the vehicle was full of groceries from the store in the same parking lot he was just looking for something he could use to justify the stop.

An officer in Ontario doesn't need to justify a stop. He can stop any car at any moment on the road and request your license, insurance, etc. He doesn't need a reason for it.

and having a statement from one officer saying that one thing is okay then the next saying its not okay gives enough reasonable doubt in my eyes but il contact my regular lawyer and the professional traffic investigator (also happens to teach traffic investigation for the opp at the police college) looking at it i see a law that is soo poorly unwritten that it leaves an open door to police harassment and that makes it unjust in my eyes. im also going to get there opinion on writing a formal complaint letter to the ministry to have the law revised or amended to something more clear.

Write away please! Most Provinces don't allow any tint on the windows to the sides of the driver. I'd love it if Ontario followed suit.

haha you sound like the officer that stopped me!!! and in that case that they changed the law to 0 tint on front windows at least it would be a clear cut law and not left up to opinion. then i would not argue anything i would not have anything to argue, the current law is so unclear its causing an obstruction of clear understanding much like dark tint would obstruct view lol

News article in the Sun today about Ottawa police (or at least one officer there) requesting the section on tinting be amended to allow photometric light meters: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/10/co ... nt-drivers

"I would respectfully propose the introduction of Photometric Meters to the Police Services and an addition to Sec. 73 to allow the use of said meters for enforcement efforts," Gatien wrote in his letter.

Currently the law is vague and relies on "officer discretion" for whats safely tinted and whats too dark Gatien said many cases are thrown out of court.

In terms of safety, there are a couple of factors here. Gatien said the current tint legislation dates back to 1990 and needs an update. While working on the road hes run into a number of issues — namely drivers who hes busted for distracted driving telling him theyll be tinting their windows, so they wont get nailed in the future.

In addition, Gatien always tells people the safest way to cross a street or merge is to make eye contact with the drivers in the area before making a move. Hes been getting loads of feedback via social media this is often impossible due to heavily tinted windows.

Finally, the last issue is officer safety. Cops routinely make traffic stops on people who dont necessarily want to be stopped.

He added tint meters cost about $80 and are currently being used in Quebec.

"Safer Roads Ottawa has offered to buy as many as we need," Gatien said.

Stanton wrote:

News article in the Sun today about Ottawa police (or at least one officer there) requesting the section on tinting be amended to allow photometric light meters: http://www.torontosun.com/2015/03/10/co ... nt-drivers

"I would respectfully propose the introduction of Photometric Meters to the Police Services and an addition to Sec. 73 to allow the use of said meters for enforcement efforts," Gatien wrote in his letter.

Currently the law is vague and relies on "officer discretion" for whats safely tinted and whats too dark Gatien said many cases are thrown out of court.

In terms of safety, there are a couple of factors here. Gatien said the current tint legislation dates back to 1990 and needs an update. While working on the road hes run into a number of issues — namely drivers who hes busted for distracted driving telling him theyll be tinting their windows, so they wont get nailed in the future.

In addition, Gatien always tells people the safest way to cross a street or merge is to make eye contact with the drivers in the area before making a move. Hes been getting loads of feedback via social media this is often impossible due to heavily tinted windows.

Finally, the last issue is officer safety. Cops routinely make traffic stops on people who dont necessarily want to be stopped.

He added tint meters cost about $80 and are currently being used in Quebec.

"Safer Roads Ottawa has offered to buy as many as we need," Gatien said.

thank you for posting this! i saw it on the news this morning and it is exactly what needs to happen! and just proves my point even more that a law so vague has a slim chance of holding up in court.

I thought I saw somewhere, (because I was looking into tinting) that 30 or 35% tint was acceptable

that was a guideline the police were using in kingston but it is not actually the law thats just where they were drawing a line in the sand

""In Ontario, its an officers discretion," he said. "If were on patrol and I cant tell how many people are in the vehicle and whether it is a male or female driver … that is the sort of thing we are looking for."

Saunders said a general rule is any tint below 30% (or 70% light transmitted through the glass), is too dark.

A fine for excessive tinting means the tint needs to be stripped and replaced, Saunders said."

source: http://www.thewhig.com/2013/07/03/polic ... ed-windows

do you know what % your tint is/was ?

the law says nothing about rear windows so as for knowing how many people are in the car thing it is complete bull! unless they are talking about 1 or 2 .

i have 30% lets 70% of light in but my rear windows and sun strip on the top of the windshield are 95% only letting 5% of light in my front windows appear much darker because of the lack of light in the vehicle due to the rest of the dark tint but there is no law other than the front windows to the left and right of the driver

the law is 25 years old and is so poorly written! il keep my 30% tint on my front glass and the day a judge deems it illegal is the sae day i will remove it, until then its no obstruction in my opinion and it clear how many people are in my vehicle. at least in the front! as far as any officer saying he could not tell male or female he may as well say i could not tell if you were black or white so i had to pull you over to make sure your not black!!