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ON H.T.A 182(2).No trucks. Dixie road S/B at s. service road
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:39 pm 
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Ontario H.T.A 182(2). Disobey sign .No trucks. Dixie road S/B at south service road Mississauga ON. That is the way to QEW eastbound.

I though I could win! I was wrong.

Here is the story:
I’m a truck (company) driver with 10 + years of experience all over Canada and USA.Clean record, never been stopped in Ontario.
ON may13th, 2010 I head to Cal Tire at Stanfield Road in Mississauga to torque my weels.I got off from QEW west true North Service road, Dixie Road North and Queensway east.
On my way back I went the same way fallowing my GPS. However Dixie road splits before QEW you veer to the right to go south on an overpass .Then after the overpass I made a right turn on road that looks like a ramp going to South Service Road. This is just before the Dixie Mall) It was reining (forgot about it at trial day) I noticed 3 no truck signs on the way, could not understand where exactly is prohibited (Dixie road south or South service road right turn. Those are the 2 choices only).There is no trucks sign immediately on roadway after the turn ,as usually is. I continue east on service road. There was a straight truck stopped on the roadway. An officer in yellow jacked show up in front of him and wave me to stop. I did . My truck is long the trailer was blocking the ramp, so he made the straight truck to pull ahead so I can straighten my truck ahead. Then I saw a black unmarked cruiser parked at the sidewalk on the right.
The officer ask me where I’m coming from .I said I could not see a sign prohibited my way .He said there are a lot of signs and issued a ticket for 110$ ,and I was on my way to Vancouver. There is something strange about this officer – he was wearing a yellow jacket (forgot to ask about that at the trial) He tried to pursuit me to go to court .Ask me personal question. On the court date came with suit and tie .Came well prepaired.The judge recognize him talked to him, they both smile. It seems he enjoy coming to court.

The court:
At first I was thinking I pay the ticket and forget about it. Then talk to my friend, and he say go to court, you gain time, postpone paying money, postponing the points to be entered on you record. There is a chance officer not to show up, you can get a lesser sentence and so on .I change my mind asked my dispatchers to give me a straight load from Vancouver back to Toronto ,hurried up ,and chose trial option on the ticket on May 26th ,2010.Went to Dixie and South Service Road, made pictures. And sure enough the unmarked cruiser was there again :) .
You can see the 14 pictures at flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/12964856@N08/.
They have explanation beneath.
Going second time there ,raise my confusion. The signs are posted with assumption that you KNOW where South Service Road is and you KNOW that the road to QEW goes true that road. There isn’t any of the green signs marking truck road going south from where I left, but there are plenty going north.I don’t know how to upload pictures direcrly at the post or how to give a link but you can see all of them at flkr.The post is getting to long so I will explain 4 of them .You can read beneath the others .
Picture 3(ticket3) is on Dixie split before you veer on right – a lot of info –need to stop to fully understand. Nothing to tell you where is South Service Road and is the road to QEW goes via that road. Small letters under the no truck sign.
Picture4 (ticket4) is a sign at midpoint of the split and intersection with South Service Road. This is the sign that made me think I could win. No truck facing you. I though it is misplaced .It basically telling you, you can not continue. Ticked 5 is a closer look.
Ticket 6 shows the sign 35 meter before intersection. No truck on South Service Road. Probably this is the sign I got the ticket for. At this point I know I can’t go south. I don’t know where South Service Road is.
Next ticket 7 is the actual intersection there is a sign with 2 arrows showing you that you going to South Service Road and QEW Toronto. So now I know where S.S.Road is.If the sign say “via”in the middle I would have known that the road to QEW goes true S.S.Road.

The trial was set up on May 9 the 2010 at 1’30 pm.The prosecutor came and everybody line up at the door. Then he start talking to us one by one. The JP came. Everybody stands an sit .The first 3 people got away because the officers where late. Then everybody start pleading guilty one by one. They got the fines but “the other mother” as I understood the points where droped.After the second brake came my turn. The prosecutor asked me “Now you know you can not go there with truck. Do you want to save the points? ‘I want it to show him the pictures and explain. So he understood that I will plead not guilty. Wrote something on the paper and made me sit.
There were 5 more drivers for the same offence (out of 30 people approximate) .The driver of the straight truck was there to. They all pled guilty, some pay immediately, some asked for 15-30 day. My turn came. I pleaded not guilty. The officer explained what happened. He said he was called because of complain of the resident. The whether was clear, good visibility (forgot to confront him about that).He described my vehicle very well .Describe the road .Explained that Dixie road is a truck road (I forgot late on to ask how would he know that on my point of view).Explained that the way to QEW is true S.S.Road (I forgot again to ask him how he knows that) He said 'I was parked in the aria, wearing my uniform, was on foot 'and so on ,I don’t remember everything it was quite long.
Then the prosecutor asked him if he were employed by OPP at the time .Hi said yes. I still don’t know is he a police officer or not.
It was my turn to ask questions. I showed the pictures .The JP ask if I showed this to the prosecutor before .I said no. They let me show some pictures to the officer. So I showed himpicture3 and ask him how I would know where S.S.R is.Dont remember the answer. Then I showed the picture 5 (midpoint no truck sign wit no explanation) He said something about it doesn’t have to have an explanation. Then I showed him second picture 7 in flkr and said it does not say via. He said it does not have to say via .then I asked him where he was parked.Hi said in the aria. He was reluctant to say where exactly so I asked him tri times and he said on a small roadway. Then I confront him with picture ticket14 where you can see him parked on the sidewalk. The picture is from May 26 so JP interfere.

She said it is not relevant .I‘ve lost focus and forgot to ask him if I ‘all get thicket by parking there. English is not my first language as you can guess from the post. I lost focus couple more time and I’m afraid my explanations where not brilliant. But I thing they all got my point. I let him go then immediately asked I forgot a question and JP and prosecutor let me ask. So I asked ho many ticket he wrote that day .He said 4.I lost my focus again .The next Question should have been .Did you stop them all on the roadway and have you been parked on the sidewalk all the time.
Then went to the defendant bench swear and try to make my point. The prosecutor chose 3 pictures only (out of 19) to go to the judge 5, 6, and 7.They let me show 3 maps printed of Google. I explained my way out to QEW intersection by intersection, sign by sign. On the end I heart myself saying “made a mistake turning”
The prosecutor asked me one question .Did you see the sign” I said “yes” .Before I say something else he said ‘no more questions’ and it was over. The JP send me to the front bench and start talking in language I don’t understand. I realized that I lost when the prosecutor say seeking 85 $.I made another mistake here. On the question do u have anything to say about the fine I said nothing. I could have said that I have two small children and my life is not working. I was on probation with the company.
I paid the ticket with my visa and surprise it is 110$.Then when back and ask the prosecutor if I get the points .He said yes.
So the recap here is about 400$ lost wages +110 ticket + I don’t know how much from insurance hike up. My company did not fire me. I could not sleep firs night, then I had to drive. It has been a week and I can’t stop thinking about it.
If we assume that 250 days on that spot are written 4 tickets this is 1000 people a year =110000 revenue. If half of them are drivers going south on Dixie I would have 500 people a year very interested in my post. The JP said 3 times that day, that she had seen a lot of infractions (don’t remember the exact word) on that spot. She can not do anything. The drivers have to call their MPs write letters to City of Mississauga. Or start a petition.

One important point- while I was looking at the pictures after the trial I found the missing part of the puzzle created by the City of Mississauga. On picture 5 of you zoom in on the lamp poll (above no parking sign) after no truck sign there is something written. ‘INDICATE RIGHT TURN FOR SERVICE RD ONLY’.I did not see that. How can I? It is 9 meter after the sign .It took me so long .Can I win on that basis. Does the officer and prosecutor knew about that and never mention it? Does the JP paid attention to what my point was?
Also can I win if the officer is parked illegally and stop me unsafe on the roadway. No blinking police cruiser behind me?
Could I win because it was raining and I possibly did not see the sign?
What are my chances for appeal? Thursday the 24th of august is the 15th day dead line. What is the cost?

Any laughs, comments and help are highly appreciated


Last edited by The Trucker on Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Truthfully, I don't think an appeal would work. The reason being, for you to win on appeal, the JP has to have made an error in convicting you based on the facts before him/her. It does not sound like that happened. If you are going to appeal it, I would suggest that you seek out a paralegal to see if it is even worthwhile. Chances are, they will tell you that it won't be.

If you saw the sign, which you said in court, that, unfortunately, is the end of your line of defence.

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http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Thank you for reading my long and boring post I had a quote today on the phone for 1500$ and no guarantee. I will consult a paralegal. Yes I definitely need help to appeal .My advice to anybody who wants to go to trial is to get legal help. It does not matter you think you rite .It is their game and their rules -they will nail you. I was naïve.
Radar ,have you seen picture 5 at fliker. http://www.flickr.com/photos/12964856@N08/4894533424/ The explanation for the no truck sign is misplaced. It is on the lamp pole 5-8 meter after the sign. The word SOUTH is missing. I did not see this one. I could not found the regulation for those letter signs. How big they should be ,where they should be located. Also does Mississauga passed bilingual signs By-law ?
Am I stupid and don’t get the point of the people posted those signs ? :oops: Here is my point of view again .The sign are posted with the assumption that you KNOW where South Service Road is ,that you KNOW the road to QEW leads true South Service Road.Aldo the name implies that is no always the case !You have to read four signs to make the connection. The second one is misplaced. The word VIA is missing on picture 7 http://www.flickr.com/photos/12964856@N08/4894537856/ It is my first time going that road.

The JP took those pictures ,so they are in the transcript. :)


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Re: ON H.T.A 182(2).No trucks. Dixie road S/B at s. service
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:11 am 
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The Trucker wrote:
There is something strange about this officer – he was wearing a yellow jacket (forgot to ask about that at the trial)


The officer was a police officer. Yellow jackets are usually for officers on bicycle patrol but sometimes officer wear them other times because they are a nice light rain jacket.

The Trucker wrote:
Also can I win if the officer is parked illegally and stop me unsafe on the roadway. No blinking police cruiser behind me?
Could I win because it was raining and I possibly did not see the sign?
What are my chances for appeal?


You can't appeal on those grounds. Those are issues to be brought up at the trial. You can't appeal because you thought of more issues, you can only appeal if you believe the JP erred when applying the law.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:30 am 
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Thank you Simon for the replay. I broth the issue of illegal parking on the trial .When the JP declare the picture I made on that cruiser irrelevant (it was on different date) I lost focus and could not finish my point.
My question was could I win the trial on the ground that the officer was parked illegally and stop me unsafe on the roadway ?
What do you think about the puzzler of signs picture 3,4,5,6, and 7.Do you find everything to be OK there?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:15 pm 
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I have not had an opportunity to review the pictures, but what I'm saying is that you will not have the opportunity to bring up new evidence that adds to your defence at an appeal. The appeal is for when you claim that the judge has made an error in law, not becasue you want a do over.

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NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


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Re: ON H.T.A 182(2).No trucks. Dixie road S/B at s. service
PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 6:45 pm 
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The Trucker wrote:
Also can I win if the officer is parked illegally


No.

The Mississauga Parking By-Law (555-00) exempts Police vehicles.

EXEMPTIONS
44. The provisions of sections 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 , 18, 19, 20, 21, 26 and 32
of this By-law do not apply to ambulances, police or fire department vehicles, or public emergency vehicles engaged in their duties, or any vehicles engaged in works undertaken for or on behalf of the City.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Thank you The Stig for that clarification. Do you know if they pass by-law for bilingual signs? Do you have a link to those by-laws or I have to buy them ?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:36 pm 
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The Trucker wrote:
Do you have a link to those by-laws

Missisauga By-Law 555-00

Enjoy


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Thank you !


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:36 pm 
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When to the court Friday .Ask for disclosure. Pay 25 $ deposit .They say it will take 6 to 8 months to receive it by mail. :lol: Found out that I have 30 days to appeal. They give you a simple form to fill out. :?
Does anybody went true an appeal process. Please share
:)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 4:16 pm 
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Please have look here http://www.flickr.com/photos/12964856@N08/4894533424/
The explanation for no truck sign is on a lamp pole 9 meter away from the sign, not under the sign. I could not find any regulation that govern those letter signs. Please share if you know.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:44 pm 
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I looked over the signage.

What you referred to as "the explanation for the sign" actually is an entirely different sign. "INDICATE RIGHT TURN FOR SERVICE ROAD ONLY" appears to be there because, beyond the turnoff for the service road, is another intersection, and they do not want to have people prematurely signalling for a right turn if they don't plan to use the service road. The other sign is a plain "no trucks" sign. In my opinion, it won't help your defence. Neither will the lack of a "VIA" sign.

The problem is, the evidence that would have exonerated you (such as not seeing the sign) needs to be presented at the initial trial. You could try to get it re-opened instead of appealing (which is probably what the paralegal would have done).

Mississauga has not declared itself to be a bilingual area. The muncipality does not have to provide bilingual signage.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:13 am 
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Thank you Radar for the comments. If your interpretation of the sing ‘Indicate right turn for service road
only ‘ is rite ,then I have made my point on the trial .

I have a single No Truck sign facing me ( out of the blue in the middle of the road) which prohibits me to go straight on Dixie road .The next sign No Truck on South Service Road prohibits me to make a rite turn,
then I have nowhere to go since one can only go straight or rite on that intersection.


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Prohibited Turn
PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:18 am 
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You have no grounds for an appeal, In my opinion you're wasting your money.

There are only 2 reasons to do an appeal,

1. The Justice of the Peace made an error in law, or
2. The Justice of the Peace made an error in judgment

An appeal does not give you a second chance for your case to be heard, it only gives a higher court judge a chance to review the case by reading the transcripts to see if the the judge in the lower court, the Justice of the peace did one of the two things above.

The ticket you have now is on your driving record for 3 years, plus 2 demerit points. As well the ticket as a truck driver goes on your CVOR record, together with the CVOR points. CVOR points go on your CVOR and safety record with the Ministry of Transportation, which in turn affects your ability to get a professional driving job and the insurance rates.

When you get someone with legal training to help you they don't just look at what happened, but they look to see if there are any legal arguments that apply to win your case.

For example, was the sign clearly visible from the distance that is required by law? The distance a sign has to be visible from is specifically specified in the Ontario Regulations of the Highway Traffic Act of Ontario, this should have been brought up at the trial???

What you did in court was give a reason why the turn was made, an explanation as to why it happened, but an explanation is not a defense to the charge.

The other thing that someone with legal training can do, other than to see if there is a legal defense, is negotiate the charge to something that would not have gone on your driving record e.g. a city bylaw charge.

A bylaw charge is a city bylaw that is not usually recognized by the Ministry of Transportation, subsequently if you had had the charge dropped to a bylaw your driving record would have remained clear, no record on your driving abstract....

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Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
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