182 (2) Disobey Sign for U-Turn

KillBeagle
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182 (2) Disobey Sign for U-Turn

Unread post by KillBeagle on

Hi :-)
I am of course writing here because I just got a ticket this Monday morning and after reading through this forum wanted to share my own story to get some advice.

What happened:
I just recently switched jobs so the drive is new to me and typically my GPS does not suggest this route but that morning I was coming off 401 on Carlingview drive when the GPS told me to turn left on Renforth drive. I was already past the end of a very long left turn lineup so decided to turn right on International Blvd first and then turn around there (I’ve highlighted the path I drove in red).
I turned right, made sure that there was no traffic behind me or in the oncoming lane (Looking at the map oncoming traffic was at least 200 to 300 meters away) and then got to a stop at the red light going from International to Renforth. At that point, the police officer must have been coming up behind me but I did not notice him until he pulled me over much further ahead on Renforth drive.

Couple of additional facts:
There are two (2) no u-turn signs which I marked with a yellow x as well as the solid demarcation lines you can see on the satellite view.
It was 9:08 AM and I was facing right into the sun when turning right on International Blvd.
The ticket I got was for “Disobey Sign” (Sect. 182(2)) apparently the lesser option according to the officer, the fine is for $85, total payable $110.


Problem:
I am not worried about the amount or the points, as I do not have any so far but since I already have a conviction from August/September 2015 for going 15 km/h too fast on the 404 I would hate for there to be a second conviction from an insurance perspective.

Questions:
It seems that the best course of action would be to go to trial if for nothing else but to delay the possible insurance impact?
I am not quite clear on the options outlined on the back of the ticket: If I opt to meet with the prosecutor first, it says I would not forgo the option for a trial but it does not specify the mechanism. E.g., do I have to send in the slip within 15 days to ask for meeting with the prosecutor AS WELL AS file a notice of intention to appear in court or could I do that after I met with the prosecutor?
Could this approach potentially buy me even more time?
Finally yet importantly, is there any realistic chance of getting this thing tossed?
From what I gather so far, the only way to toss it would be for procedural errors on behalf of the officer or the prosecution in providing the evidence against me.

Thanks in advance for your help and let me know if I am missing any information, you might need.
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

No you do not need to file intention to appear in court if you are doing early resolution. If you do not like the outcome of early resolution, then you can tell prosecutor you would like to get disclosure and set a trial date.

At trial you probably can't beat this ticket, although we need to see officers notes from disclosure to be sure. However, my suggestion is to go to early resolution and ask the prosecutor if they will change the charge to OWNER OF VEHICLE Disobey Sign instead of DRIVER. When the OWNER is charged, then it does not affect insurance and does not count against your driving record.

Are you the owner of the vehicle? They can only change it to Owner from Driver if the driver is also the owner. You will need to print out section 207(1) and 207(2) and take it with you. Specificaly in 207(2) it says:
"Section 207
When owner not liable (2) The owner of a vehicle, except if the owner is also the driver, shall not be convicted for a contravention of,
(b) sections 129 to 143, subsections 144 (1) to (17), subsections 144 (19) to (32), sections 145 to 168, section 172, subsections 175 (1) to (10), subsections 175 (13) to (18) or section 176, 182 or 199;
"
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Decatur
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Unread post by Decatur on

102(2) doesn't mean that the owner can be convicted of those offences like a red light camera offence. It simply says you that the owner can't be convicted under section 182. Unless they were also the driver. But the conviction would be against them as the driver. 182(2) has no provision in the section to charge an owner.


KillBeagle
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Unread post by KillBeagle on

I've requested a meeting with the prosecutor which will be in October.
In case I don't like the outcome of that meeting I would then ask for a trial and request disclosure.

In case the evidence is water tight and there is no form error or anything else, would I still get another chance to settle before or at the trial date?

Would it make sense/is it even possible to request disclosure prior to the meeting with the prosecutor?

Thanks!


ShrekTek
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Unread post by ShrekTek on

If the prosecutor offers you some kind of deal at early resolution, they may or not offer you the same deal at trial date.

If you show up for early resolution and they offer you a deal you could say "would I be able to see disclosure before I decide whether to accept the deal or not?"

They might say yes, or they might say no... never hurts to ask.
I am not a lawyer and I am not a paralegal and I do not give legal advice.
All statements made are my opinion only.

ShrekTek


KillBeagle
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Unread post by KillBeagle on

Hi all,

I finally had my meeting with the prosecutor which was a very interesting first time experience.
I did not plead guilty and requested evidence (attached).
Court date is early February but I would like to move it further simply because my insurance renews right around that time so if I can get a couple of extra weeks not to impact my insurance rates.

Couple of things I’ve noticed at the meeting as well as on the evidence and would love an opinion:
[list][*]My last name consistently has a typo in the notes as well as court document “i” instead of “l”.
[*]In the evidence the officer notes that the offence was conducted on Renforth Drive. The street only becomes Renforth drive after the according intersection and is called International Bl. There is no similarly depicted situation anywhere on Renforth Drive.
[*]During my meeting with the prosecutor I noticed a 6 page long list on the wall with all the names of the people that were meeting the prosecutor that day. They all had the same officer number note next to them except for my name which had a different officer number. Wondering if this could be an indication that my particular officer is not around anymore[/list]

Questions:
[list][*]Would any of the above (or in the evidence) realistically allow me to successfully get away with not guilty?
[*]Can I move my court date 1 time and how would I best go about it?
[*]If I bank solely on the officer not showing up at court how would that go down? How would I know he is not there (I don’t remember at all how he looks)? What would I have say other than that I plead not guilty or would I need to provide further explanation?[/list]

Thanks!




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