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Disobey Sign HTA 182 (2) - Municipality of Toronto
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:57 am 
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I got a fine around 5:30pm yesterday for turning left where there was a sign prohibiting left turns between 4-6pm. I take that turn every morning, so it never crossed my mind what time it was. I had 2 hungry babies in the car with me and all I wanted was to get them home. So I guess I'm guilty, it doesn't matter what the explanation is, but is there any way I can either decrease the amount of the fine ($110) or not have the 2 demerit points? I swear I didn't disobey the sign deliberately.
If I decide to plea not guilty, what are the chances of winning? Anyone with experience in a situation like this, please help.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:55 am 
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Your chances of winning are based on the merits of your particular case and the evidence the officer has to present in court. You acknowledge the facts in issue and that you are guilty...so that says something.

If you want to exercise the option to plead guilty with an explanation you can make submissions to the JP as to the fine. The JP will ask you to articulate why you should receive a reduced fine based on your individual financial circumstances.

The JP has no control over the points, that is an administrative issue governed by the MTO.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Thanks, Simon. Is it worth hiring paralegal services? Road Warriors wants to charge me $300 plus GST to defend me, attend court, etc. That's 3 times as much as the ticket... Do they have a real chance of dismissing my ticket?

I'm more worried about the 2 demerit points. If I plead guilty, even if the ticket amount is reduced, I'll still get 2 demerit points, right? So why pay more to have the same outcome?

If anybody has used paralegal services in a similar situation, please advise. Thanks.


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Re: Disobey Sign HTA 182 (2) - Municipality of Toronto
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 11:04 pm 
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Morena wrote:
I got a fine around 5:30pm yesterday for turning left where there was a sign prohibiting left turns between 4-6pm. I take that turn every morning, so it never crossed my mind what time it was. I had 2 hungry babies in the car with me and all I wanted was to get them home. So I guess I'm guilty, it doesn't matter what the explanation is, but is there any way I can either decrease the amount of the fine ($110) or not have the 2 demerit points? I swear I didn't disobey the sign deliberately.
If I decide to plea not guilty, what are the chances of winning? Anyone with experience in a situation like this, please help.

Thanks in advance.


Were your babies needing food?

Dispute it ask for disclosier.

Bring your kids to court when you go.

There is no way they can convict for you just going home.

You must be allowed access to your home, especially with hungry kids.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:57 am 
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I can't advise you whether you should hire a paralegal or not. If they fight it you could have the ticket dismissed, or you could be convicted. Same thing if you represent yourself. The likelihood of the ticket being dismissed depends upon the merits of you specific case.

If you are convicted you will receive the points, that is non negotiable.

You could appeal to the crown to amend the ticket to a different offence that doesn't carry points. This is possible for certain offences (red light for example). I don't know for certain if this is possible with a disobey sign ticket.

With respect to some of Viper1's comments, I have to disagree. Bringing your kids to court with you will probably not affect the outcome. And they CAN convict you for just going home, because you didn't need to break the law in order to get home. The fact that your kids were hungry and you were going home doesn't really play into this scenario at all. It's not a defence, it's just the reason you weren't paying closer attention to the sign.

You have to weigh your options to determine if it's worth it for you to hire a paralegal. Cost of the paralegal vs. cost of increased insurance over the next 3 years while the ticket is on your record and taking into account the possibility that you may hire a paralegal and still get convicted. It's always a gamble.


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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 8:03 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
what intersection is this? to update the thread accordingly

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Re: Disobey Sign HTA 182 (2) - Municipality of Toronto
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:58 pm 
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I just won a Disobey sign case yesterday here in Toronto. The prosecutor immediately offered Interference with traffic and no points and a $60.00 fine as a plea agreement. I chose to take it to trial and the officer was not prepared with any evidence so the charges were withdrawn. I would not recommend hiring a paralegal, while I understand that some are very good, I have been to court twice, won both times (charges withdrawn and a win) and watched x-copper and points simply take the same plea I was given and I got mine for free. Save your money, take 2 hours and go to court and get the plea yourself.


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Re: Disobey Sign HTA 182 (2) - Municipality of Toronto
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:10 pm 
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Location: Toronto
viper1 wrote:
There is no way they can convict for you just going home.


That's right - in and of itself only. They can, however, convict for disobeying the sign. If the sign was obscured, or there was a life-threatening emergency, or something happened like a brake failure, THAT would be a valid defence for disobeying the sign, from a legal standpoint.

viper1 wrote:
You must be allowed access to your home, especially with hungry kids.


The officer did not bar Morena from accessing his/her home. The officer ticketed Morena for disobeying a sign.

However, "Interference with Traffic" is a municipal by-law offence (I'm pretty sure) and that may be an option, if the officer shows up and the disclosure package is complete. Your chances of getting a reduction in this particular case are decent.

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