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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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"Disobey Sign" S.182 (2)
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 12:12 am 
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Location: Toronto
Hi there,

I was wondering if I could get some direction to fight this ticket I recieved 2 days ago. I was charged with the above offence. Here is what happened:

1) I was driving in the right lane on a 2 lane highway (115 to Peterborough), I decided to pass 2 cars in the right lane ahead of me going approx 90-100km; (1 car was an OPP cruiser and head of him approx 2-3 cars was a minivan);
2) I pass both cars by signalling and using the passing lane (left lane), at the speed of 110 km, both cars were driving approx. 90-100km;
3) I passed OPP and the minivan and before I get a chance to safely go back to the right lane, the OPP cruiser pulls into the left lane and puts the lights on to signal me to pull over. So I did.

4) He asked me the following:
OPP: Is something wrong with my speedometer?
Me) NO.
OPP: Why did you pass me?
Me: You we're driving behind the van at speed of 100km, so I thought there was a reason, so I used the passing lane to pass. And did not mean to disrecpt you.
OPP: That's exactly what you did.

He explained to me how I was following too close and made an unsafe lane change. Took all my info went to his car. Came back with a ticket but explained to me how he is "letting me off" of following too close and unsafe lane change and giving me a ticket for "disobey sign" contrary to the Highway Traffic Act Sec. 182 (2).

I don't even know what sign he is talking about. I don't know what rule I broke to tell you the truth. If I was speeding I should have gotten a speeding ticket....or following too close I should have received a ticket for that offence. This guy gave me a really general ticket if you ask me.

I am going to request disclosure, I was wondering how far in advance do I have to ask for disclosure and how do I go about it.

Also, if anyone has any tips to help me fight this ticket, any direction, advise you have, I would really appreciate it.

Thank you.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:44 pm 
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LOL...why would you overtake an OPP cruiser??

Where was the common sense in that....obviously hes going to pull you over.


Regulations, signs and markings

182. (1) The Lieutenant Governor in Council may make regulations requiring or providing for the erection of signs and the placing of markings on any highway or any type or class thereof, and prescribing the types of the signs and markings and the location on the highway of each type of sign and marking and prohibiting the use or erection of any sign or type of sign that is not prescribed. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (1); 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 32.

Signs to be obeyed


(2) Every driver or operator of a vehicle or street car shall obey the instructions or directions indicated on any sign so erected. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 182 (2).


The ticket he gave you is for overtaking on a solid line.

Wait until you get disclosure and then see what the cop wrote.

More information from the disclosure is needed to help you further.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:23 am 
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Location: Stratford, Ontario
It IS legal to pass on a solid line in Ontario. The cop is just coppin' an attitude about being passed. Fight the ticket. Don't let yourself get tricked into a plea-bargain by the Crown at trial. You have 15 days to decide your plea. Wait for about 12 or 13 days from the offence date and get your ticket down to the courthouse listed on the back (make a copy for your records first). Check "officer to attend" box on ticket. While at the courthouse, ask the clerk for a Disclosure Request Form. Fill it out and hand it in to the clerk.

The officer has 30 days to write a new ticket, so the trick is to make sure your court date arrives AFTER 30 days have passed (to ensure you don't end up with a new Speeding ticket or something). Personally, I wouldn't even bother requesting Disclosure, to avoid alerting the cop of my intentions.

When you get your court date, show up, wait your turn to ask the officer questions under oath.
1) What sign did I disobey?
("The speed limit sign")

2) What did the sign say?
("100 Max" or whatever)

3) Did you clock me with Radar?
("No")

4) Where was this sign located in relation to this alleged offence?
("Uummmm... I'm not sure")

5) Are you sure there even WAS a sign?
("No")

During closing statements, you would emphasize that the Prosecution has failed to prove that there was a sign, or that you disobeyed a sign. I would take the stand in my own defense. I would move straight to closing statements. You don't want to fall into the trap of saying you passed at 110kph (under oath). If you do, you will lose. 110 is speeding and you have just admitted to it.


That's the best I could come up with in 5 minutes's!! ;)

Good Luck


P.S. I was once behind a marked OPP who was pegged right on the speed limit. I new he was just messin' with me, but I just couldn't stand it any more, so I passed him.... ever-so slooooowwwwly, LOL. Well of course he pulled me over and commenced to unleash a good 'ol fashioned "hollarin" on me. His face was beat-red. I though he was gonna' explode, LOL. No ticket though :)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:16 pm 
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OHTA and Bookm,

Thank you for your advise, I really appreciate your help and trust me I will be using it when I receive a court date.

LOL!! I guess overtaking an OPP officer with my car was a mistake...maybe :lol:

However I just wanted to clarify I Did Not overtake a solid line, I was traveling on a highway with 2 lanes, a right lane and a passing lane going North Bound and South Bound had the same and the highway was divided by grass.

Bookm I have to say you are One Clever Cat :lol:

Btw, I had no idea the officer has the ability to issue another ticket within 30 days after he issued me the first one. Wow, I thought the USA was the only country where the Police is bigger than God Himself!?!? :lol:

Thanks again guys!

I will keep you updated and let you know if I beat this ticket.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:40 am 
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Little Guy wrote:
I had no idea the officer has the ability to issue another ticket within 30 days after he issued me the first one.


I was recently helping a co-worker fight a ticket. The officer took it upon himself to write a different charge on the ticket, to give her a break. My co-worker felt she was innocent of the original charge, so she wanted to fight it despite the "courtesy". She plead not-guilty, waited the 30 days, then went to the Crown to have the charge dropped. He said he would write a NEW ticket. She said it's been over 30 days. He said the officer has 30 days, but HE has 6 months to file new charges.

It turns out this is true. So I now advise friends to NOT discuss strategy with the Crown. Just wait until the trial and have the JP rule in your favor. I highly doubt the Crown is going to file new charges AFTER a trial. Otherwise, there would be a slew of defendants seeking 6-month Continuances.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:16 pm 
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Well they drop the case since cop had no legs to stand on. It was his word against mine. He didn't get me on radar so technicly he can't say at what speed limit he stop me and for following to close and unsafe passing again his word against mine I adjust my driving according to weather condition. On my disclosure I got he wrote he let me off following to close and unsafe pass, it was just another thing for me to use against him, what does it say about his integrity I would asked JP, so I had a very good felling they will drop the case so I don't have to say all this inside court room in front of the all other people so his face would be just as red as it was when he pulled me over lol. Inside cout room prosicutor wanted to make a deal I told him I will take the stand, so he said since he can't do nothing about me losing points Jp can't do anything about it either so he said I said with sarcastic smile I know I will take the stand and walked back to my seat. Instantly cop came to prosicutor and talk to him for few minutes and then came to me and asked me if I can come out of court room with him. Outside he told me they decide to drop the case (case he didn't have but was hoping I will not show up) and gave me advise how to drive I said yaya sure and that was it. So basiclly he was just abusing his power but it didn't work this time.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:57 am 
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Just shows that most people do have something to win outta this ordeal. He had no right to stop and ticket you, so you won the case. Congrats!

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:24 am 
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Little Guy wrote:
So basiclly he was just abusing his power but it didn't work this time.

Congratulations on your win.

Abuse of power no, lack of evidence = yes.

I will guess since you said there was no radar, that the officer forgot to have the cruiser checked on radar to ensure the speedometer was accurate. This would also require the 2nd officer in court, clocking the cruiser, other officer might not have been given a trial notice.

I will always stop a vehicle that passes me, every cruiser here has dual radar and I will have the speed (not passing the cruiser speed, but way sooner when the vehicle was gaining significantly on the cruiser). Someone passes me they obviously want my attention and will receive my complete undivided attention.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Nobody needs your attention, hwybear, just let us be on our way.

congrats to OP for the win.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:30 pm 
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liveontheedge wrote:
Nobody needs your attention, hwybear, just let us be on our way.


Sure we do need cops attention, when we do need it! Just not on the road...

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:35 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
Other officer might not have been given a trail notice.

There was no other officer, the one pulled me over was alone in his cruiser, no partner. And if I didn't pass him ( as I said he drove 100km/h me about 95km/h), then the 3rd vehicle behind me would get pulled over for driving too slow lol. You said yourself ( I always stop vehicle that passes me), you really do have a complex. In Toronto you can pass any cruiser at speed limit 115-120km/h and no officer with character will stop you unless you drive crazy and over 120km/h. But in Peterborough and other small towns these officers think they are above the law. I don't think so, those times are long gone although there are cases, police has been rocked with scandals and coruption last few years, so what does it says about them.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:53 pm 
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I'm not going to go into an "our cops are tops" speech especially when the top cop has some serious issues. But not all cops are the way you describe them. After reading some of the posts on this board, I am sometimes amazed at the restraint and professionalism that the officers showed to the poster when clearly a good smack to the head was in order.

In Toronto I've seen a vehicle pulled over for continuing to drive 54km/h in a 50 zone with the cop right behind them. While this offends our sense of fair play, anyone who continues to drive above the posted limit and thinks they are not doing something wrong is in effect saying "I'm above the law." When you speed, you know what you are doing. Anyone who continues to speed around a marked cruiser is taunting the cop and asking for it. You did this.

We all congratulate you on your victory. It's great when the little guy wins against the machine. In fact I have a site dedicated to helping people do just that!

But Bear's comments are valid and he would get my vote for top cop any day.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:48 pm 
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Just to back up what TC said...

You won, congratulations. But there is no need to insult hwybear. I don't always (or usually) agree with him, but that's not the point. The fact that he's willing to take his spare time and engage the public, giving the police perspective on things, is definitely appreciated. That's more than most officers would do. Moreover, I've never seen him call people an idiot or this or that, even if they've done or said something that's totally "out there."

I don't have any regards for the OPP Commissioner either (the sooner he's replaced, the better), or some officers who have done some really stupid things (like getting a police vehicle impounded), but that's not all of them and let's face it, every line of work has its "problem people."


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:07 pm 
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:37 am 
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Little Guy wrote:
hwybear wrote:
Other officer might not have been given a trail notice.

There was no other officer, the one pulled me over was alone in his cruiser, no partner. .


Unfortunately you missed my post. There could have been a 2nd officer involved and that is what led to the withdrawal. If no radar was used, then it was based on a speedometer of the cruiser. Then the cruiser is clocked on radar, to ensure the speedometer is accurate, this has to be done by another(2nd) officer. Then both officers have to attend court on the matter

Quote:
You said yourself ( I always stop vehicle that passes me), you really do have a complex. In Toronto you can pass any cruiser at speed limit 115-120km/h and no officer with character will stop you unless you drive crazy and over 120km/h. But in Peterborough and other small towns these officers think they are above the law. I don't think so, those times are long gone although there are cases, police has been rocked with scandals and coruption last few years, so what does it says about them

Myself and many others will set the example of appropriate speed on the highway (when on regular patrol).....thus we are NOT above the law and adhere to the speed limit. Plus I do not want to be charged with neglect of duty, should a blatant offence be so visible (speeding and actually passing a cruiser in the same direction) and I will at least stop the person and have a chat.

Yes, I will stop someone that passes me, difference is I will always have a radar reading (all cars in my office have dual radar). Every time I have stopped the person they always come up faster than 120km (rear antenna radar lock) anyway, did the "gradual" drive by (sometimes taking 1km to pass me) or pull in behind me....wait for a few km and decide to pass :shock:

I drive the same in my own vehicle as I do at work. I would not ticket someone for something that I would do. I would NOT pass a cruiser either (I do not want stopped, I do not need a ticket, I don't want to put a fellow officer in that position)

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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