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Disobey Sign 182(2)
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:52 am 
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On my way to work this morning I received a ticket for disobey sign. I was on Hwy 10 Mississauga in the right lane. The right lane leads to the 401 and there is a sign saying Right Lane Exits. I Tried to merge left before the on ramp as did 3 other people. We all got a ticket for doing that. Is there anything I can do? I did not realize I was breaking any law it was a dotted line where I tried to change lanes.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:16 pm 
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You have an excellent chance of fighting this ticket. The signs in Mississauga have to be bilingual otherwise they are not enforceable. This is a link to the legal precedent: http://www.yourbestdefence.com/illegal_ ... _case.html and my website explains how to make the argument but I'm not allowed to link to my own site (it's under Step 5, bilingual defence).

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:39 pm 
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Thank you I read your site and it does look interesting.

I drove by the spot this afternoon to be sure and it does say

"Right Lane Exits" on an orange sign. That is all I thought that is a recommendation not a law. I would of expected Right Lane Must Exit.

The language is all English though so I may have a case.


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Re: Disobey Sign 182(2)
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:41 am 
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Brian wrote:
it was a dotted line where I tried to change lanes.

Wouldn't this make it a legal lane change (assuming correct signaling, etc.)? I wouldn't have thought you'd be "locked in" until the line became solid. If the bilingual angle works, great; but I would have expected common sense to apply. (I'm no expert on the law, but I do drive that highway and others that are similarly marked and signed.)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:26 pm 
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I don't know if this is true or not but a prosecutor told me that lane markings are not enforceable (solid, dashed, yellow or white) they are only recommendations. S.182 is about disobeying signs, not lane markings. I can't find any HTA entry against disobeying lane markings other than going left of centre of the road!

I know that stretch as well. In heavy traffic, the exiting lane moves the fastest and people use it to pass and then merge back to Hurontario before the exit. It sounds like the cop was doing some "enforcement" based on the sign, not the lane markings.

The issue will be what the sign requires drivers to do. Given the lane markings are still dashed at that point ( a recommendation that lane changes are still possible), a driver could reasonably expect to be able to change lanes back into the traffic flow.

The bilingual argument is just a bonus!

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Brian wrote:
"Right Lane Exits" on an orange sign. That is all I thought that is a recommendation not a law.


Orange means "temporary" or "construction zone".
Yellow means recommended.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:29 pm 
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ticketcombat wrote:
I don't know if this is true or not but a prosecutor told me that lane markings are not enforceable (solid, dashed, yellow or white) they are only recommendations. S.182 is about disobeying signs, not lane markings. I can't find any HTA entry against disobeying lane markings other than going left of centre of the road!


HTA 154 Fail to drive in a marked lane.

for the sign portion...HTA 154(1)(c) Lanes can be designated to make traffic move in a particular direction....relates to OREG 615 (34) just a simple picture with only an arrow

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:36 pm 
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The bilingual argument may make any discussion moot here (and good luck with it), but I think there's still an interesting point. I detest cutters as much as anybody (i.e., drivers who deliberately drive in a right lane past cars that are cooperating at a slow spot, then cut into the head of the line) but I'm wondering just where a lane marked for turning becomes inescapable. The Hwy. 10 right lane in question here extends for miles south of the 401 -- so it is not an exit lane added for the right turn. IIRC, the "Right Lane Exits" sign is an overhead, just north of Britannia Rd. (I'm assuming we're going northbound.) From Google Earth, I make it 175 metres from the sign to where the lane actually turns right, with no solid lines before that. I wonder by what point in that stretch a driver must be merged left, if he wants to stay on Hurontario, to avoid being charged. Before reaching the sign? At a point beneath the sign? Within the first 100 metres after the sign? Not just anywhere before the dotted line ends, apparently, since Brian and three others were ticketed for doing something wrong, and what they did apparently related to the sign.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:25 am 
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Thank god I don't work the GTR area.....the mentality of a lot of drivers is just whacked.

If one could get thru to these blocks of concrete (heads) on how to drive it would reduce the congestion and speed up traffic :shock:

- travel at the speed limit
- merging people come on and actually merge at highway speeds
- don't merge at the last second to cut someone off (making anothe driver brake)
- signal your intent to switch lanes, look, then move into an opening
- leave a good following distance
- don't brake until you are on the ramp to exit
- commuters know what exit they are going to, plan ahead, you use the same exit everyday, it's not a shock that it is 1km away, don't just switch lanes 200m from the exit

Once you get all that in place, hammer the *EDIT* on the aggressive drivers who are accelerating and zig zagging thru small openings, changing lanes, causing others to brake etc...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 10:52 am 
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Quote:
Thank god I don't work the GTR area.....the mentality of a lot of drivers is just whacked.


This could get a long thread going, speaking of GTA drivers...

-- the left lane is for PASSING, not for driving under the speed limit with 500 cars stacked up behind you
-- the shoulder is not a lane
-- the sidewalk is ALSO not a lane :shock:
-- don't drive on the wrong side of the road for a block to make a left turn because you don't want to sit in traffic like everyone else
-- speaking of left-lane hogs, don't sit in the left lane and then swerve across four lanes of traffic to exit at the last second (What were you doing in the left lane to begin with??????) :x
-- don't text-message while driving :roll:
-- don't stop in the middle of the road to read a map
-- don't make a left turn from the right lane, but especially when drivers in the left lane are also turning left
-- if you miss your exit, don't reverse on the freeway to get to it; drive to the next exit :shock:
-- if an emergency vehicle comes up behind you with its lights on, PULL OVER NOW, A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER COULD BE HAVING A LIFE-THREATENING EMERGENCY :x :x :x
-- if everyone else is going 100-120, don't slalom through the traffic like a demented kamikaze at over 160 on the DVP :shock:
-- if you want to turn left and you're facing a red light, don't hammer the gas and try to make the left turn in front of oncoming traffic the second the light turns green (considered a "stunt")

There I'm done. I saw all of that yesterday.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:38 pm 
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My favorite: Don't read a book while driving :shock: (yes I'm serious, coincidently I saw it on Hurontario south of the QEW). We don't pay higher insurance rates in the GTA for nothing. We earned it!

Back to Proper1's issue about lane markings and my comment. Bear I understand HTA 154, but I don't see anything about solid or dashed lines, yellow or white, merely stay in a proper lane and how to change lanes. Nothing about crossing a solid white line. Comments?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 1:11 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
Quote:
Thank god I don't work the GTR area.....the mentality of a lot of drivers is just whacked.


This could get a long thread going, speaking of GTA drivers...

-- the left lane is for PASSING, not for driving under the speed limit with 500 cars stacked up behind you
-- the shoulder is not a lane
-- the sidewalk is ALSO not a lane :shock:
-- don't drive on the wrong side of the road for a block to make a left turn because you don't want to sit in traffic like everyone else
-- speaking of left-lane hogs, don't sit in the left lane and then swerve across four lanes of traffic to exit at the last second (What were you doing in the left lane to begin with??????) :x
-- don't text-message while driving :roll:
-- don't stop in the middle of the road to read a map
-- don't make a left turn from the right lane, but especially when drivers in the left lane are also turning left
-- if you miss your exit, don't reverse on the freeway to get to it; drive to the next exit :shock:
-- if an emergency vehicle comes up behind you with its lights on, PULL OVER NOW, A FRIEND OR FAMILY MEMBER COULD BE HAVING A LIFE-THREATENING EMERGENCY :x :x :x
-- if everyone else is going 100-120, don't slalom through the traffic like a demented kamikaze at over 160 on the DVP :shock:
-- if you want to turn left and you're facing a red light, don't hammer the gas and try to make the left turn in front of oncoming traffic the second the light turns green (considered a "stunt")

There I'm done. I saw all of that yesterday.


You forgot "Don't post on www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com while driving"

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"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:10 pm 
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ticketcombat wrote:
Bear I understand HTA 154, but I don't see anything about solid or dashed lines, yellow or white, merely stay in a proper lane and how to change lanes. Nothing about crossing a solid white line. Comments?

Correct, nothing preventing crossing the lines.......but normally the lines are placed in areas where other offences might apply.....no clear view on curve, hill, bridge, railway crossings etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:24 am 
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hwybear wrote:
Correct, nothing preventing crossing the lines.......but normally the lines are placed in areas where other offences might apply.....no clear view on curve, hill, bridge, railway crossings etc.

Well, I'll be [whatever]! I did not know that, and it makes sense. Thanks for that, ticketcombat and Bear.

So the issue at intersections like Hwy. 10/Hurontario northbound and the 401 is pretty much a crapshoot. Somebody who knows that area well and is in the right lane of 10 approaching Britannia will know that that right lane will lock him onto the 401 east almost immediately past Britannia, and should merge over to the centre lane well before he gets there: no excuse for him. But somebody in that right lane who is less familiar with the scene might not realize he was about to take an involuntary trip toward North York. Bumper to bumper, stop and go behind a truck or a large SUV, he might not see the "Right Lane Exits" sign until he was nearly under it. Not much he can do at that point, I guess. Take the right and go where he does not want to be, or try to merge left in the next 150 metres and hope he doesn't get a ticket.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Some of you seem to know the area.

I am coming from Brampton heading south to just past the 401.

In the morning I come along Hurontario everyday. From Courtney Park on I was looking for a chance to get left as I do not like to run up to the end and jump in. I did not get a chance so I ended up near the end. I saw the cop there but felt I was doing nothing illegal same as the other 2 people.

I have submitted my request for a trial as I am pleading not guilty.


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