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180km/h in a 100km/h zone
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:33 pm 
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I was rushing home at 4am going on the 417 since my father wanted the car(his car) home. Most of the way home there was no traffic so I kept a speed of 140km/h in a 100km/h zone. When I was close to home this random SUV was tailgating me which I had trouble seeing because all i could see was his headlights. When this happened I assumed it wasn't a cop because i was already speeding so he would of already pulled me over. But that never happened.. Since it was a friday night I concluded that it was probably just some drunk guy just trying to piss me off so i sped up to 145-8 km/h to get some distance. At this point I was going up this pretty steep and long hill so I fed more gas since my 05 Kia Sorento had a hard time maintaining the same speed, however, the SUV was still tailgating me( I was in the right lane the whole time). When I was at the top of the hill and started going downhill, my speed increased but I was not aware of how fast I was going at the time because I was soo concentrated in looking at the rear view mirror of the SUV that was STILL tailgating me, and also looking at the road infront of me. When I glanced at my speedometer I saw that I was going WAY to fast... I was going 172km/h, the second I pressed the brakes to slow down the SUV turned on its lights... It was an undercover Tahoe just playing games with me the whole time.

The officer gave me a summons saying that Im being charged for Speeding and Stunting going 180km/h and he did impound and suspend my license for 7 days. But I never hit 180 km! My Car can't even go that fast, I've seen youtube videos!!

What should I do?????? What are the consequences? and chances ill get the Stunting charge dropped? I'm still 17 and I have never gotten one traffic violation until now.... and it's a pretty serious one. I'm a University student paying for my own tuition and I cannot afford to pay a 2000$ fine or even worse.. more than that. I never had the intent (mens rea) to go that fast. I wasn't aware that my car was going that fast when I was going downhill. I do accept the fact I was speeding because I was already going 140 and the only reason I sped up at all is because this guy was tailgating the heck out of me, where he could of simply gone on the passing lane. Please I need help.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:04 pm 
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This sounds like un-fair practices. The police should not be tailgating you.

I once had a similar situtation where on 401 I was going in left most lane 130 km/h when this approaching car behind me just started tailgating me. I did not know it was a cop but once I passed a truck on the right, I indicated and moved to the center lane. The police vehicle passed me without incident.

I think legal help should be obtained.

Tailgating causes you to speed up further out of fear IMO and I don't think its fair when the police itself causes you to speed up by being a tailgater.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:52 pm 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
The officer probably already had your speed at 140ish, caught up and got close enough to read the plate to call it in prior to stop (officer safety) while doing, so your vehicle accelerated higher. So officer continues to follow and obtain higher speed readings.

Does not matter if the Tahoe was marked or unmarked at night the headlights are all the same in the rear view

Most drivers do not speed up, they slow down and if necessary stop on the shoulder or get off at a ramp and let the vehicle go by. I have done all those, which gives whomever plenty of time to carry on and get well ahead of me.

here's the youtube videos:






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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Ok, to start with the videos, none of these sorento's have the same engine as mine. The first two videos are diesel engines (CRDI) because of high prices of regular unleaded fuel in that area of the world, both of these were filmed in Turkey(my home country). As for the Third video, that is a 2009 Kia Sorento with a 3.8L 262 hp V6, where the 2005 Kia Sorento has a 3.5L 192 hp V6 and the funny thing is that 3.8L engine BARELY hit 180km/h. The 05 and the 09 weigh the exact same except the 3.8 has 70 additional HP so you be the judge of what the engine I have is capable of with 70 HP less.

For the slowing down part and stopping on the shoulders: Sure I could slow down on purpose but that would just seem like i'm just trying to piss him off, especially for a guy that i thought that was drunk screwing around with me, I don't think that was the best idea. I can see where you are coming from but this wasn't a highway with one lane. There were two, and I was on the right lane. So why would I have to pull over on the shoulder? He has the passing lane available. The next ramp that was coming up was the one I was getting off at too. That was exactly what was going through my mind at the moment it was happening.

But one thing I don't get is sure he got my plate, but when I sped up i stayed at the same speed which was at about 146km/h for a good 5-6 minutes.. So why did he just continue to stay on me like that and not put on his lights? There was no gain in speed for a good amount of time. I went faster than that after the hill because it was going down hill at that point, but I guess it was just an ignorant thing for me to do.

And I didn't understand when you said it shouldn't matter if the tahoe was marked or unmarked, I didn't know it was a Tahoe until I pulled over. I never knew what tahoe's headlights look like.

The good thing is I do have a witness, so if I can I will use him.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF ... 3&t=k&z=14


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:36 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Same make/models would have the same top end speed govenor put on by the factory, so one engine gets there faster, but they would both get there.

Whether 2,3,4, 5 lanes an option is still is to take your foot off the accelerator, let the vehicle momentum slow down, once at speed limit if need be, put on signal to go onto shoulder. Then let whomever travel down the road. Wait for 5 minutes or listen to one of your favourite songs, then carry on. This gives whomever ample time to be well away from you, rather than trying to out accelerate. This is an easy way to relief one's stress and preventative measure for road rage.

I'm sure one of the occupants had a cellphone that could call in to report a drunk, but obviously not concerning enough at the time as no call was made.

Quote:
But one thing I don't get is sure he got my plate, but when I sped up i stayed at the same speed which was at about 146km/h for a good 5-6 minutes.. So why did he just continue to stay on me like that and not put on his lights?
The Tahoe lights always appear closer than they are, I have had people tell me I was close when I was 100m behind, actually they thought the brights were on too. In the meantime it is not just about getting the plate. Pending on airtime, wait for opening and call in, dispatcher then checks the plate, then checks owner, sometimes the system just isn't instant. For someone accelerating away, most likely trying to get units positioned ahead prior to lights, in case vehicle won't stop. Officer is familiar with area and waiting for a suitable stopping location (away from bridges, posts, guard rails, curves, hills etc) and at night sometimes wait for next lit up area. Lots of factors involved for waiting.

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Re: 180km/h in a 100km/h zone
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:16 pm 
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ilk123 wrote:
When I glanced at my speedometer I saw that I was going WAY to fast... I was going 172km/h


At 50 km over limit you can be charged with stunting/racing and have your vehicle impounded, licence suspended ect. By you admition you were 72 km over limit. Unless you live a sheltered life under a rock somewhere you know this law by now. And you were caught well over the limit. I dont see you being able to get out of this. But your best bet is a paralegal you shouldn't fight this on your own.

admin wrote:
Tailgating causes you to speed up further out of fear IMO and I don't think its fair when the police itself causes you to speed up by being a tailgater.


I am totaly sympathetic to the average guy that gets a ticket. I have never been a fan of police "enforcement" over police "education" or in other words police should give more warnings. I absolutely can not agree with admin on this. Although the police should not tailgate... EVER. The police did not cause him to further break the law. He had other choices, slow down, move left, get off the highway, ect. He made a bad decision by speeding at 140kmh and made another bad decision to go even faster at 172 kmh.

You screwed up. Do your research. Find good representation. And good luck to you. Although I do not agree that the police caused you to speed faster, it might work in court, who knows. Please keep us informed as things procede.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Well I think in my personal experience, when I get tailgated I do end up speeding up to get the guy off me, its natural instinct.

The dilemna here is that he was going 140 when the police first came behind him, and the police stayed there until he went over 150, possibly causing him to do so.

Not saying he did the right thing by speeding and ofcourse he deserves a ticket, but does he deserve Stunt Driving for initially going 140 and then possibly being pushed to higher speeds before the police officer decided to pull him over?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:36 pm 
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You guys are very right, unfortunately when I realized my speed and decided to let my foot off the gas and brake... he put on his lights. But one thing I would never do in that situation would be pulling over. In the past after a soccer game I was on this deserted road and A guy in a ford followed me and kept on high beaming me and I sped up out of fear, this time I was by myself. He followed me all the way to my house and then drove away since my father was in the front waiting for me( since I told him). I talked to an officer after about it and he told me to NEVER pull over due to safety reasons, cause if he stops too or drives up beside me when i pull over and has a gun or anything.. what do you do? Call the cops? I think I might be already screwed by the time they got there.

So you have to understand my situation here, after the similar situation happening again I panicked, I wanted to call the cops but whats the point when im almost home is what I thought, I wanted to wait to see if he was actually following me after I got off at the next exit.. which was the exit I was already supposed to get off at, but I literally got pulled over 300m away from it:P

I don't think I would get away with the speeding, I am aware that I was speeding already and accept the speeding fine, but i didn't have the intent to be "stunt" driving. I do have a friend who actually was speeding 85 over in a SCHOOL zone... he had no reason bu he hired a papalegal and the judge dropped the stunt driving offense since it was his first infraction. He only got the speeding fine and had to take a 300$ driving course. So i might just use the same person he did.

If they decide not to drop it, do you think I could use these following defenses?? I know that the highway traffic act 172 (1) is CONSTITUTIONAL meaning that:

" A driver is entitled to present a "due diligence" defence [of strict liability], that reasonable steps were taken to speed by less than 50 kilometres."

The defenses I can use (which admin is trying to explain) is Entrapment. The officer was causing me to go faster out of my fear and pressure/panic from him tailgating me when i went from 140 to 146. Also saying Mens Rea not being present is another valid form of defense: I wasn't aware of the speed I have travelled to due to the circumstances I have stated in my first post.

"In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit."

"Mens Rea: it's Latin for “guilty mind”, and means the intent behind a wrongful act"


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:34 pm 
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Best bet is some sort of professional representation - either a paralegal or lawyer who deals in HTA/Criminal Code driving offences. Trying to articulate a defence of due diligence in court to this particular charge, without prior court experience, is going to be very difficult.

One other comment: If I'm being followed by a road-rager, I wouldn't drive home. Do you really want the sociopath knowing where you and your family live??

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Quote:
One other comment: If I'm being followed by a road-rager, I wouldn't drive home. Do you really want the sociopath knowing where you and your family live??


hahaha very true, I did call a friend to go there first and he said " No way... I don't want that guy knowing where I live!!! Just go home, you're moving in 4 days anyways" - Lucky me:P

But i'll give you guys updates on the situation.

Thanks for the help guys


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