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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Speeding 146km in 100km (reduced to 129km)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Location: scarborough
Hey guys, i recently recived a ticket for speeding 146km in 100km on the 115 HWY heading towards peterborough...

The officer had reduced the fine to 129km and sent me on my way.

I have filed the ticket for trial

I was driving around 9.30-10pm clear,no fog,no rain, not much traffic.

I was pulling a 2wheel utility box trailer

what is my best plan of action to save myself the points/insurance increase.

my courtdate is scheduled for DEC4th 2008

if i fight and loose, will i be charged for the 146km in 100km?


thanks alot
could use all the advice and help

J :shock:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:42 pm 
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To get a good idea of how to fight the ticket yourself, go to www.ticketcombat.com. This is a website created by another regular poster. Lots of good info there.

Main thing is to get disclosure so you can see the Crown's evidence against you. If you want to save the demerit points, you can always plead down to 15 km/h over, if the Prosecutor agrees, but that will usually still result in an insurance increase, depending on who your provider is. For my insurance provider, one ticket for 15 km/h over is ignored, a second one gets a surcharge, a third one is a 3-year hike, etc. Some insurance companies freak out completely over speeding tickets, no matter how small, and others look at how frequently you get ticketed, the severity of the offence, and so on.

It is highly unlikely that you'd be convicted of going 146 in a 100. The officer reduced it to 129. Just out of curiosity (not that it really matters), did he fill out the code box on the right side of the ticket with something like "R - 146" (meaning reduced from 146)?


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thanks for the reply,
PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:59 pm 
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Location: scarborough
I have gone across that site, you mentioned agreed that there is alot of usefull information.

With regards to disclosure, will i have to go to peterborough to go get it? or can they mail it to me? its about 2hr drive 1way for me to go to this courthouse. and is there a time line in how long before court you can request it?

He did fill out the code box on the right, but he had just put R and nothing else.

Thanks for all the help
hope to win this

J


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:41 am 
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Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
The "R" code is just that. "R" for reduced, "L" for Liquor, "X" for voided ticket, there are a couple more codes for different things, but never use any others. I can check when I get back to work

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:53 am 
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You should plead not guilty (the trial option) and see the disclosure. It will be mailed to you once you request it, no need picking it up. See a prosecutor on one of the dates that will be provided about lowering your charge to 15 over. In the worst case scenario 29 over is the worst you will be charged with.

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:08 pm 
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Make sure that you send your request for disclosure via registered mail or courier, that way they can't claim that you didn't make the request. Did they offer a First Attendance meeting or did it just go right to trial?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:21 pm 
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I can't comment on Peterborough specifically but I thought Attorney General rules are no mailouts, you have to pick up disclosure??

Most likely, given the short turnaround, disclosure will be ready just before trial. You can pick up disclosure on the day of trial and ask for an adjournment to go through it. If the disclosure is inadequate (and it usually is), you can use your appearance before the judge as an opportunity to request full disclosure (and perhaps even costs!)

Also, bountywolf, you should be aware that if the prosecutor is particularly nasty (and it is within 6 months of the offence) they can withdraw the charge and issue a summons for speeding at the higher km/h. I point this out so that you are aware of the risks involved.

p.s. thanks everyone for the positive feedback on my site :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:39 pm 
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Location: scarborough
hey guys, thanks for all the replies and advice.

when i went to peterborough to file a court date ( i find out when i get there i didnt need 2 go there) but anyway i was there, so i filed the date..

at the time i wasnt sure of the option on the form they used to file the ticket..

there was a box which stated do u wish to challenge the evidence of the officer (yes/no) i had put no
then there was another box saying if you choose no, the officer is not required and the prosecutor will rely on statements.

i got the notice of trial form in the mail. it says this is a notice to confirm you have chosen to challenge the evidence of the officer (which i want to do now that i have read about it)

also ticketcombat your saying if i fight they will put the speed up to 146km? is that not tampering with the evidence/ticket?

and what do you think the best excuse/reason to get the fine reduced to the lowest posible
(student?/insurance?)

thanks alot guys
J


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:50 pm 
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Yes, you always want to challenge the evidence of the officer if you go to trial.

What TC is saying is that there is a POSSIBILITY that the prosecutor MIGHT, if he is vindictive/spiteful/whatever, withdraw the charge and put it back up to 146 km/h. That is not that common, though. Sometimes they will, but more than often they will not.

No excuse is required to get the charge knocked down to 15 km/h over, just negotiation prior to trial. If you show up at trial date, you can negotiate with the Prosecutor to agree to plead guilty to a lesser speed (aim for 15 km/h or less, anything more is demerit points), if he/she is willing. More often than not, they are. A guilty plea for them keeps their conviction stats up and their bosses happy, so that's an option for you. See what they say. If they do not agree, you can then start using other strategies to fight the charge.


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question
PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:32 am 
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Hey guys, ok so my plan is to plead for 15km under

if the cop doesnt show up, i will try to plead inocent, but i highly doubt he will not show up..


and just want confirimation if i can get the ticket thrown out if the cop doesnt come ???

because when i had filed for a court date, i had chosen the option not to challenge the evidence by accident, and that it is not required for the officer to show up and certified statements will be used against me, but according to the form i got, it states that this is to confirm that you wish to challenge the evidence of the officer,

so if the cop doesnt show up, can i still get the ticket thrown out of what?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:40 am 
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some get tossed, others can be adjourned to a later date....depends on the crown.....

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http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:05 pm 
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If the cop is not there, they have no witness and will likely toss the charge. If they say you indicated that you were not going to challenge the evidence (the cop), pull out your notice of trial and show them that they acknowledged that you were going to question him.

The prosecutor will likely know that the charge has already been reduced. You may not get a huge break. Be prepared before trial. Decide what you are willing to accept (115km/h) and not willing to accept (125km/h), for example.

You should look at http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... 20-15.html which is from my website. You can use some of these arguments with the prosecutor as well: remorse, sincere apology, you live out of town and have already paid a steep price, etc... to try and convince her to go lower.

And arrive at least a 1/2 hour early to give you lots of time to convince her before the usual lame excuse crowd shows up and puts her in a bad mood.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
What TC is saying is that there is a POSSIBILITY that the prosecutor MIGHT, if he is vindictive/spiteful/whatever, withdraw the charge and put it back up to 146 km/h. That is not that common, though. Sometimes they will, but more than often they will not.
Sorry I didn't mean to scare anyone. Yes it's a remote possibility. It was more of a warning to show respect rather than antagonize someone you want to be your ally.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Quote:
It was more of a warning to show respect rather than antagonize someone you want to be your ally.


Always good advice.


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hey back again
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Location: scarborough
hey guys, back again.. court date is coming up quick :(


So i got some questions and loking for some answers :D

So in my situation if the cop doesnt show up... what can i do.. how can i avoid having the trial rescheduled. and if i say not innocent and the cop isnt there how can i go about it



the next thing is when the cop shows up can i talk with them to reduce the fine hopefully 15km or under


thanks alot


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