Speeding 146km in 100km (reduced to 129km)

Hey guys, i recently recived a ticket for speeding 146km in 100km on the 115 HWY heading towards peterborough...

The officer had reduced the fine to 129km and sent me on my way.

I have filed the ticket for trial

I was driving around 9.30-10pm clear,no fog,no rain, not much traffic.

I was pulling a 2wheel utility box trailer

what is my best plan of action to save myself the points/insurance increase.

my courtdate is scheduled for DEC4th 2008

if i fight and loose, will i be charged for the 146km in 100km?

thanks alot

could use all the advice and help

J

To get a good idea of how to fight the ticket yourself, go to www.ticketcombat.com. This is a website created by another regular poster. Lots of good info there.

Main thing is to get disclosure so you can see the Crown's evidence against you. If you want to save the demerit points, you can always plead down to 15 km/h over, if the Prosecutor agrees, but that will usually still result in an insurance increase, depending on who your provider is. For my insurance provider, one ticket for 15 km/h over is ignored, a second one gets a surcharge, a third one is a 3-year hike, etc. Some insurance companies freak out completely over speeding tickets, no matter how small, and others look at how frequently you get ticketed, the severity of the offence, and so on.

It is highly unlikely that you'd be convicted of going 146 in a 100. The officer reduced it to 129. Just out of curiosity (not that it really matters), did he fill out the code box on the right side of the ticket with something like "R - 146" (meaning reduced from 146)?

I have gone across that site, you mentioned agreed that there is alot of usefull information.

With regards to disclosure, will i have to go to peterborough to go get it? or can they mail it to me? its about 2hr drive 1way for me to go to this courthouse. and is there a time line in how long before court you can request it?

He did fill out the code box on the right, but he had just put R and nothing else.

Thanks for all the help

hope to win this

J

The "R" code is just that. "R" for reduced, "L" for Liquor, "X" for voided ticket, there are a couple more codes for different things, but never use any others. I can check when I get back to work

You should plead not guilty (the trial option) and see the disclosure. It will be mailed to you once you request it, no need picking it up. See a prosecutor on one of the dates that will be provided about lowering your charge to 15 over. In the worst case scenario 29 over is the worst you will be charged with.

Make sure that you send your request for disclosure via registered mail or courier, that way they can't claim that you didn't make the request. Did they offer a First Attendance meeting or did it just go right to trial?

I can't comment on Peterborough specifically but I thought Attorney General rules are no mailouts, you have to pick up disclosure??

Most likely, given the short turnaround, disclosure will be ready just before trial. You can pick up disclosure on the day of trial and ask for an adjournment to go through it. If the disclosure is inadequate (and it usually is), you can use your appearance before the judge as an opportunity to request full disclosure (and perhaps even costs!)

Also, bountywolf, you should be aware that if the prosecutor is particularly nasty (and it is within 6 months of the offence) they can withdraw the charge and issue a summons for speeding at the higher km/h. I point this out so that you are aware of the risks involved.

p.s. thanks everyone for the positive feedback on my site

hey guys, thanks for all the replies and advice.

when i went to peterborough to file a court date ( i find out when i get there i didnt need 2 go there) but anyway i was there, so i filed the date..

at the time i wasnt sure of the option on the form they used to file the ticket..

there was a box which stated do u wish to challenge the evidence of the officer (yes/no) i had put no

then there was another box saying if you choose no, the officer is not required and the prosecutor will rely on statements.

i got the notice of trial form in the mail. it says this is a notice to confirm you have chosen to challenge the evidence of the officer (which i want to do now that i have read about it)

also ticketcombat your saying if i fight they will put the speed up to 146km? is that not tampering with the evidence/ticket?

and what do you think the best excuse/reason to get the fine reduced to the lowest posible

(student?/insurance?)

thanks alot guys

J

Yes, you always want to challenge the evidence of the officer if you go to trial.

What TC is saying is that there is a POSSIBILITY that the prosecutor MIGHT, if he is vindictive/spiteful/whatever, withdraw the charge and put it back up to 146 km/h. That is not that common, though. Sometimes they will, but more than often they will not.

No excuse is required to get the charge knocked down to 15 km/h over, just negotiation prior to trial. If you show up at trial date, you can negotiate with the Prosecutor to agree to plead guilty to a lesser speed (aim for 15 km/h or less, anything more is demerit points), if he/she is willing. More often than not, they are. A guilty plea for them keeps their conviction stats up and their bosses happy, so that's an option for you. See what they say. If they do not agree, you can then start using other strategies to fight the charge.

Hey guys, ok so my plan is to plead for 15km under

if the cop doesnt show up, i will try to plead inocent, but i highly doubt he will not show up..

and just want confirimation if i can get the ticket thrown out if the cop doesnt come ???

because when i had filed for a court date, i had chosen the option not to challenge the evidence by accident, and that it is not required for the officer to show up and certified statements will be used against me, but according to the form i got, it states that this is to confirm that you wish to challenge the evidence of the officer,

so if the cop doesnt show up, can i still get the ticket thrown out of what?

some get tossed, others can be adjourned to a later date....depends on the crown.....

If the cop is not there, they have no witness and will likely toss the charge. If they say you indicated that you were not going to challenge the evidence (the cop), pull out your notice of trial and show them that they acknowledged that you were going to question him.

The prosecutor will likely know that the charge has already been reduced. You may not get a huge break. Be prepared before trial. Decide what you are willing to accept (115km/h) and not willing to accept (125km/h), for example.

You should look at http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com ... 20-15.html which is from my website. You can use some of these arguments with the prosecutor as well: remorse, sincere apology, you live out of town and have already paid a steep price, etc... to try and convince her to go lower.

And arrive at least a 1/2 hour early to give you lots of time to convince her before the usual lame excuse crowd shows up and puts her in a bad mood.

Radar Identified wrote:

What TC is saying is that there is a POSSIBILITY that the prosecutor MIGHT, if he is vindictive/spiteful/whatever, withdraw the charge and put it back up to 146 km/h. That is not that common, though. Sometimes they will, but more than often they will not.

Sorry I didn't mean to scare anyone. Yes it's a remote possibility. It was more of a warning to show respect rather than antagonize someone you want to be your ally.

It was more of a warning to show respect rather than antagonize someone you want to be your ally.

Always good advice.

hey guys, back again.. court date is coming up quick

So i got some questions and loking for some answers

So in my situation if the cop doesnt show up... what can i do.. how can i avoid having the trial rescheduled. and if i say not innocent and the cop isnt there how can i go about it

the next thing is when the cop shows up can i talk with them to reduce the fine hopefully 15km or under

thanks alot

bountywolf wrote:

hey guys, back again.. court date is coming up quick

So i got some questions and loking for some answers

So in my situation if the cop doesnt show up... what can i do.. how can i avoid having the trial rescheduled. and if i say not innocent and the cop isnt there how can i go about it

the next thing is when the cop shows up can i talk with them to reduce the fine hopefully 15km or under

thanks alot

Maintain your innocence. If the judge asks your permission to reschedule, you have to say that you respectfully decline based on the grounds that you have already been in court once, and this is costing you time and, by virtue of work missed, money. Then you motion for the case to be stayed.

Hey back again... will update with the outcome of the trial for sure..

But for some assurance.... When i go to court and if the cop doesnt show up.. (since i have picked no to challenege the evidence of the officer) can i still ask for the case to be thrown out? or will i have to fight it against " officers statements"

I revieced the notice of trial in mail, and it cleary states "this is to confirm that you want to challenge the evidence of the officer"

I woul really like to have teh case thrown out if the cop doesnt show up, but i think that they will use my mistake against me..

please reply asap

need all the help i can get

thanks alot

J

If the officer does not show up, the Crown essentially has no evidence. They have no witness, really nothing. So yes, ask for it to be dismissed.

Just to verify... in your post above you said that you selected that you do not want to challenge the officer but then you got a notice saying that "this is to confirm that you want to challenge the evidence of the officer"... is one of them a typo? Or was the notice of trial that you received written that you DO want to challenge the evidence?

On the original form i had picked no instead of yes to challenge the officer..

But when i recieved the notice of trial.

it states

" This will confirm that you have chosen to challenge teh evidence of the provincial offences officer."

which is what i should have picked in the first place

So i hope that they wont mess me over for picking the wrong option.

Times counting down... taking all advice guys

thanks alot

Hey guys, got back from court....

didnt go as planned.

Cop showed up..........

Prosecutor would not budge from 119km, i was stuck with 3 points, no way around it

so i really had no other choice. (other than fighting, but im sure i would have lost)

really sucks

Sorry to hear it didn't go as planned. Did you get 129 or 119? If you got 119, your insurance company, depending on who they are, won't hit you with a huge increase. They might not increase your premiums at all. Getting 10 km/h knocked off the charge also saved you a little bit of money in the short run, and may have saved you from an insurance increase ranging from $50 to over $200 per year. 25 or less over usually has a modest increase, but 26 or more over is usually much steeper, and 45 or more over REALLY cost$ lot$ of dollar$. So while the demerit points stay, you probably saved yourself a lot more money than if you'd paid the ticket.

3 demerit points isn't too bad. I've had that many on my record before. No biggie. At 6, the Ministry sends you a nastygram telling you to watch your driving behaviour. The points stay on your record for two years, the conviction on your abstract for three years. If you get 9 demerit points or more, you get a nasty interview. At 12 demerit points, your licence gets suspended.

You went from 146km/h over to just 119 km/h over without even putting up a fight. That's pretty good on any day! Radar Identified is right. The insurance and penalty are much smaller than what you were originally facing.

All things considered, no disclosure, no fight, it may not be apparent to you now but you did really well.

well, it is definietly a saving when compared to the orignial charge.. and its brought down to a point where its not as big

thanks alot for all the advice/guidance on what i should do..

Regards the disclosure.. i would have required to pick it up @ peterborough but wasnt really an effective idea.

oh wel...... time to go for my G

thanks once again

so what happens when the prosecutor wouldnt have given me the 115km, was there anything else i could have done to get him to change it from 119 to the 115km ?

could use the tips for future reference

thanks once again

Dropping the extra 4km/h isn't that much more. The only thing I can think of is that they REALLY did not want you to get away without some demerit points. Did you dress up? Did you show respect? Did you use any of the arguments I suggested above (showing remorse, sincere apology, distance traveled, etc.)?

Hey man, there was 4-5ppl with the same situation 15+ and the prosecutor would not let it go past 19.. i guess they really wanted to give us points

I had dressed up, giving a apology, asked for 115km plea, after that he didnt really let me get into the distance/time i spent on it, he was set on the 119km

bountywolf wrote:

so what happens when the prosecutor wouldnt have given me the 115km, was there anything else i could have done to get him to change it from 119 to the 115km ?

could use the tips for future reference

thanks once again

From the little knowledge I have, don't stand there and give them the finger....nope, don't do that. However, try to show that you are trying to speed things up, that does help. Show them a whack of paperwork and tell them it's evidence, it might help the plea bargain....

Reflections wrote:

Show them a whack of paperwork and tell them it's evidence, it might help the plea bargain....

Cute...add to that...bring in couple highschool binders from the old days, don't even open them (as it's just the old geography and art class notes anyway)

hwybear wrote:

Cute...add to that...bring in couple highschool binders from the old days, don't even open them (as it's just the old geography and art class notes anyway)

But make sure you clean it first, taking off all dust and cobwebs.

hwybear wrote:

Reflections wrote:

Show them a whack of paperwork and tell them it's evidence, it might help the plea bargain....

Cute...add to that...bring in couple highschool binders from the old days, don't even open them (as it's just the old geography and art class notes anyway)

The last time I was in court everyone was quick, quick. Even when the "trial" was happening, the JP complained about time.......in the court system, it's all about time.