Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:11 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
Posts: 5
Hello, I'm in a bit of a bind and need some advice, I've never gotten a ticket before and am a little overwhelmed.

I recieved two tickets this evening
"Driver fail to surrender licence" -sect 33(1)
"Speeding 140km/hr in a 100 km/hr zone" -sect 128

The tickets come up to $405.00 (#1 $110.00, #2 $295.00), Now, I'm unemployed at the momment and litterally have no way to legaly come up with the money to pay these tickets, so I'd really like to fight them and hope he screwed up or doesn't show up to court, or at the very least push back the date at which I need to pay until I have a job.

Some context
I was driving along the QEW between Niagara and Fort Erie, my exit was coming up so I sped up a little to get ahead of the line of cars in the right lane. Behind that line of cars was a cop on the side of the road, he pulled me over.
The thing is, the officer was really railing into me for stunt driving. He said he had radar evidence that I was going over 150 km/hr, while I wasn't staring at the odometre the whole time, I never saw it higher than ~140, and I do keep an eye on it very regularily when passing people, and especially when there is a suspiscous black vehicle on the side of the highway. I was only going about 10 km/h faster than everyone else whom I was trying to pass, and these people were in almost a solid line between me and the shoulder for the whole stretch he could have clocked me.

He threatened me with roadside seizure, licence revocation, $2500+ fine, and a whole bunch of other stuff, he even made my mother cry when he called her to varify my identity. He was kind of... unpleasant, really milking the whole thing, I felt like i'd killed someone the way he was giving it to me, he had me scared half to death. Looking back on it I wonder if he wasn't just messing with me in some attempt to scare me straight or something, because I'm really about as certain as I could reasonably be I wasn't going that fast, nor was I driving unsafely under the circumstances. Or perhaps he was just attempting to scare me into accepting the ticket and not fighting it? I really don't have any experience with police, so I don't know but the reason I bring that up is... If I do try and do anything other than plea guilty, can they try and throw any of this back at me? I'm afraid that if I do try and delay or fight it they might pin the stunt driving thing on me. Paying them right now is litterally not an option for me, for at least 3 weeks assuming I miraculously land a job tomorrow.
I'm not even sure how I would fight it, since I certainly did not have my liscence on me, and was certainly going 135-140, I'd be lieing if I said that wasn't true. I checked everything on the tickets and they seem to be filled out correctly.

Am I just totally screwed here or what? Anyone have any advice?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:16 am 
Offline
Sr. Member

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Ontario
You should always review disclosure to see if the evidence against you will support a conviction. You do not have to testify during your trial, all you have to do is poke holes in the case against you.

If you are not going to dispute your guilt you can ask to meet with a prosecutor and ask for lower charges in exchange for pleading guilty to one of the charges. If they don't come up with something you are happy with you can elect to go to trial at a future date.

Most JP's will grant you as much time as you need to pay the fine, if you explain your dire financial situation they will reduce the fine to something you can realistically afford.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:46 am 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1062
Sounds like the charge might have already been reduced at the scene.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:54 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
Posts: 5
Well I suppose in either case reviewing the evidence against me wouldn't hurt.
It's kind of unfair if charges which I would refute as untrue would keep me from having the same chance at reducing my actual charges as anybody else, which is why I'm asking if that has any bearing on any of this or have they forfeited that whole claim at the scene.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:32 pm 
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1062
You would need to request a trial and request disclosure to see what the evidence is against you. It'll list the original speed if the ticket has been reduced.

If your charge has been reduced from 50+, I wouldn't count on catching anymore breaks.

If you go all the way to trial, you will see your charges amended your real speed. Probably something you'd want to avoid in your case.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:58 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
Posts: 5
Alright that's what I was afraid of, I guess all I can really do is try and negotiate the terms of my payment as ynotp said.

Out of curiosity though, what's to stop all officers from just exagerating charges, then knocking them down at the scene to blackmail people into going straight for the plea of guilt?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 682
Integrity


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:13 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Abraxis wrote:
Out of curiosity though, what's to stop all officers from just exagerating charges, then knocking them down at the scene to blackmail people into going straight for the plea of guilt?


1) Courts----we don't live in a corrupt country; every case can be tested before an impartial court;
2) Legal professionals---they are trained to bring to surface any deficiencies in your charge so as to test the evidence;
3) Officers have no vested interest in your case---believe what you will but officers make no money off of any fines you pay;
4) Risk of termination/charges---why would an officer risk losing their livelihood by 'blackmailing' people to pay fines that they won't benefit from in any event---there's no incentive; and finally (as Decatur stated)...
5) Integrity----most officers respect their role and function and would not want to tarnish themselves or the profession with such stupid actions. They are proud to lead by example.

Of course, I've also never met someone who is driving doubly suspended and ever freely accepts the blame---its always someone else's fault. Your comments don't surprise me in the least! Thankfully, we have honest officers who are able to swim through the BS and will charge people like you accordingly! I especially love it when someone on 2 probation orders is charged for multiple breaches on just 1 act! I guess you'll soon learn your lesson on the concept of multiplicity.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:26 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member

Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
Posts: 382
I think, as others have said, your best bet is to file for trial and get disclosure. This will push back the date by which you have to pay and will give you a chance to look at the evidence against you. If you can't find any holes in the evidence that would allow you to beat the charge, you can ask for a meeting with the prosecutor and see if you can either get a reduction in your fines or at the very least be given an extended amount of time to pay them. They may also be able to put you on a payments plan so you can pay them off a little bit at a time.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:36 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
Posts: 5
You might want to reconsider lashing out at random people for... whatever your problem is Highwaystar. People are people, some are generally good, some are generally bad, whether they're cops or not has nothing to do with it. In my specific circumstance, I am not even saying he's blackmailing me, his radar very well may have said 150, I don't know, I don't know him, I don't know how reliable he or his radar gun are. But given I'm in a situation where several of my options have been clamped off, that does raise a few flags for me, but at the end of the day correlation does not imply causation. I am just working out all possible scenerios before I make my choice.

I think I'll go in and ask to for a meeting with the prosecutor to discuss payment options, and if the oportunity presents itself, obtain disclosure of the evidence. After speaking with my mother, apparently he litterally said he intends to press the stunt driving charge if I try and fight it. So without any evidence of my own either way, that seems out of the question.

Thanks again everyone.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:29 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:02 am
Posts: 5
Just for the sake of argument now,

highwaystar wrote:
1) Courts----we don't live in a corrupt country; every case can be tested before an impartial court;

In my situation, I stand to lose a whole lot more from seeing this to court than I stand to gain. Simply exercizing your right to a court hearing should never, ever have such negative reinforcement attached to it. If you get charged, try to deffend yourself and fail, you should be in the same situation as when you started with the charges. You should not face more charges for choosing to push your deffense. I have been heavily disencentivised from deffending myself in court here. How is that any better than a corrupt system in which I couldn't have a court deffense?

highwaystar wrote:
2) Legal professionals---they are trained to bring to surface any deficiencies in your charge so as to test the evidence;

I can't afford my ticket, I certainly can't afford a legal professional. I imagine it may be in my right to have one appointed to me for free. If I thought I could afford cosultation with layers instead of asking a forum, I would have. Whatever the case, let's say I got a lawyer, see #1

highwaystar wrote:
3) Officers have no vested interest in your case---believe what you will but officers make no money off of any fines you pay

Whether they get paid is irrelevent. Officers, as with any other job have their performance evaluated. The duty of a traffic officer is to issue tickets for violations. If he's not issueing tickets, he might as well have spent his day in time hortons reading a book. This reflects poorly. Whether it's career advancement, respect among his peers, self-importance, whatever, getting tickets is unquestionably better than not getting tickets.

highwaystar wrote:
4) Risk of termination/charges---why would an officer risk losing their livelihood by 'blackmailing' people to pay fines that they won't benefit from in any event---there's no incentive

My car is ungoverned and I do not have any sort of legally recognized monitering device affixed to my odometer, who does?. How could I, or anyone for that matter, possibly have the necessary evidence to make this a risk for a cop choosing to do this? As for incentive, see #3

highwaystar wrote:
5) Integrity----most officers respect their role and function and would not want to tarnish themselves or the profession with such stupid actions. They are proud to lead by example.

That's admirable, and I'm sure many cops think that way. I have met some that seemed to act that way, and I know another personally whom holds himself to those standards. But at the end of the day, they're people. Not everyone is the same, and not all cops have the same respect for integrity, it's so naive of you to imply all of them would. They're people in a uniform, just as imperfect as everyone else.

As for this specific cop, he's put me in a position where I can't reasonably deffend myself. Whether he is a man of integrity or not, that is at least enough to warrant some suspicion on my part. I find it hard to believe any reasonable person would disagree with that. Nobody should ever have to worry about harm coming from simply analyzing their deffensive options. On forums or in life.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:45 am 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:42 pm
Posts: 31
That is all nice to say and I know you are questioning the officers integrity etc, but in your original post you said you never saw the odometer pass 140km/h. The officer charged you with going 140km/h so is it possible that at the moment when you looked at your odometer the offer was looking at this radar?

If he already knocked it down for you on the side of the road say from "stunting" you do run the risk of having the ticket brought back up to the original charge. However if you feel like you have a strong case for whatever reason to have the ticket thrown out then go for it.

Request a trail, see the discloser, talk to the prosecution (early resolution meeting) if you want to see if you can get it knocked down further and go from there. You can pay your knocked down ticket up until your trial.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:51 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Are you just trolling? I mean, you can't possibly be THAT stupid, can you?

Let's recap:
1) You were driving while 'DOUBLY' suspended;
2) BUT, not just driving ---instead you're going at LEAST 40 over (i.e. a great way not to draw attention to yourself!);
3) PLUS, you're doing all of this with your own MOM in the car!

And, now, you've actually got the nerve to be questioning the integrity of the officer!!!! Are you serious??? How 'bout you look in the mirror or look at your mom (for even letting you do these things in her presence).

Count yourself lucky the officer only threatened you with 'stunt driving' (a perfectly valid charge if you were going over 50)----because a 'bad' cop would have found a way to beat your sorry a$$ down and haul you to jail! Be grateful you live in Canada!


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:20 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 682
1) I don't see anything in the OP to indicate the driver is suspended.
2) Mom wasn't in the car. The officer called her.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: 2 Tickets, 140 in 100 and failure to surrender liscence
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:15 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
Posts: 279
Decatur wrote:
1) I don't see anything in the OP to indicate the driver is suspended.
2) Mom wasn't in the car. The officer called her.


Thanks for your reply Decatur---I just realized I've been posting in the wrong thread! My previous comments were geared to another Op------I merged the threads in my mind! Oddly enough, my comments wouldn't have made sense on the other thread either! Now, if only I could merge the 2 lobes of my brain to work together!

My apologies to everyone, and especially to THIS Op.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. 140 km/h in a 100 km/h zone (HWY 407)

jhyang23

6

5143

Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:59 am

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. HTA 140 (2) (b) - Failure to Yield to Pedestrian

vesh

0

1825

Tue May 27, 2008 10:30 pm

vesh View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Failure to surrender G1

brettshard

8

1469

Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:42 am

Radar Identified View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Failure to surrender insurance

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

pinch

24

2437

Mon May 18, 2009 10:09 pm

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. failure to surrender license

torontobboy21

4

13416

Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:04 am

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. failure to surrender license (g2)

sumyeikmei

4

1549

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:24 am

bend View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Failure to surrender license

thisismyusername

3

576

Mon Oct 19, 2015 2:23 pm

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. failure to surrender insurance card

dubseller

4

2879

Wed Sep 01, 2010 5:25 pm

dubseller View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Failure to Surrender Insurance Card

ulot9040

0

2237

Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:50 pm

ulot9040 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. failure to surrender insurance card

kwigle

13

6151

Fri Jan 27, 2012 9:09 pm

OPS Copper View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. failure to surrender license section33(1)

ianw

1

1437

Fri May 04, 2012 5:45 pm

Stanton View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Speeding and failure to surrender licence

mdeaton

1

727

Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:27 pm

bend View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.