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140 km/h in a 100 km/h zone (HWY 407)
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:27 am
Posts: 2
Hi all,

I got my first speeding ticket on HWY 407.

I was in a hurry and thought that there would be no cops on 407 on a Sunday morning, so I decided to pay an expensive toll to go on 407 and speed.

In less than a few minutes, I was proven wrong.
OPP cruiser showed up in my rear view mirror and I was pulled over and given a ticket with no mercy.

I went to Mississauga court house and applied for a trial, and was given a trial date right on the spot and it's in July.
I went to prosecution office on the same day and filled out their disclosure request form, which doesn't allow me to ask for any specific item, and in less than two weeks, I have already received the following:
- officer's note
- 'Speed measurement' and 'Manufacturer's Recommended Daily Test' sections in lidar manual

Officer's note is a copy of his log book and some parts are not legible.
It also contains lots of acronyms and I can't really figure out what these acronyms mean.

Although his note mentions that he's passed lidar test before and after pulling me over (appears to be at the beginning and end of his shift), it doesn't contain any details of the test, like the distance of test object and etc.
I don't think his note shows what lidar model he's actually used. It just shows something that appears to be the serial number.

Now, having 3 months to my trial, I'm thinking of the following options.

OPTION 1:
Send another request for disclosure and ask for:
- typed version of officer's note, including explanation of all acronyms he used.
- a copy of both sides of the officer’s copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);
- witness will say statements;
- witness statements;
- any statements made by the defendant;
- copies of the original notes of such statements; and
- the names and address, occupation and criminal record of the persons providing such information.


OPTION 2:
Just go to the trial in July and hope that he doesn't show up. If he shows up, ask for adjournment because I could not understand his hand-written note.


OPTION 3:
Go and ask for extension few days before the trial date as I will be on my vacation that day.



What should I do now? Any input would be greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:08 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 254
Location: The Valley
Option 2 or 3 are gambles. Don't be gambling.

Option 1 is appropriate, but wanting the names addresses occupation & criminal record of who?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:14 am 
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I'd say that disclosure is more or less complete for this case... except for parts of the notes. What I'd do is file another request, stating that you cannot read certain parts of the notes, and would like a type-written copy of them. (Include a photocopy of the notes highlighting the parts that are illegible.) That's what I'd do for now. The other stuff is really not required to be disclosed, and in some cases doesn't exist (e.g. "witness will-say statements," and "statements made by the defendant," etc.) That stuff is good for a drunk driving case but not so much speeding...

If you need to move the trial date, go in and do it ASAP, don't wait until the last minute. As for hoping the officer does not show up, well, if you do go in on the day of trial, often the Prosecutor will offer you a deal to avoid the trial. You get a lower speed, they get a conviction to pad their record, it's sort-of win-win. Since it's your first ticket, they'll probably reduce it to something like 15 or 29 over.

With the notes & manual, you could put together a case, if you wanted to go that far...

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:01 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
If you need to move the trial date, go in and do it ASAP, don't wait until the last minute.

What would be a good reason for extending the date? Is vacation plan good enough?

Also, do they ever ask you why you plead not guilty?
What's a good thing to say if they ask?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:18 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 354
It is highway traffic act offense. You will never be given a persons criminal record. In fact for a criminal code offense you will never get a person criminal record. Nor should you. You also will not be given a persons address.

Not sure where people think they should have access to this but I have seen this crop up more frequently in the last while in here. Perhaps to much American Tv influences

OPS


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:35 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:01 pm
Posts: 371
Location: GTA
People, remember the following facts:
1) Increasing or decreasing the speed limits has no effect on median speeds on the roads. People will continue to drive at reasonable speeds for the conditions.
2) Building on #1, people are more likely to speed in good lighting, on dry straight roads
3) Police services have to demonstrate how they are keeping the roads safe ("yes, we caught xxxxxxx speeders this month")
4) That's why you are more likely to get nailed for speeding on a nice straight road, with plenty of lanes, on sunny days at times when there is very little traffic. Those of us who take the 407 more often expect to see a cruiser hiding under every other overpass (especially in the GTA).

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:59 am 
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jhyang23 wrote:
What would be a good reason for extending the date? Is vacation plan good enough?


You can certainly do that, it has been accepted before, as long as you do it early. Waiting until the last minute generally will result in it being rejected.

jhyang23 wrote:
Also, do they ever ask you why you plead not guilty?


No. You have a right to plead not guilty. The answer is actually simple: "Because I'm not guilty." Any explanation of why/how is what the trial is for. You are innocent until proven guilty.

OPS Copper wrote:
In fact for a criminal code offense you will never get a person criminal record. Nor should you. You also will not be given a persons address.

Not sure where people think they should have access to this but I have seen this crop up more frequently in the last while in here. Perhaps to much American Tv influences


Answer is right here:

http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurewhat.php

Specifically, in disclosure, asking for:

Quote:
• their contact information, criminal record and occupation;


Come to think of it, a witness's criminal record would not be available to a defendant at all due to privacy laws.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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