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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 7:53 pm 
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I never knew an area where there was 2 lanes on the 400. I learned something new...where is this?

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Duke wrote:
I thought this forum was to get help in terms of fighting tickets, but looks like majority of the people don't give you any tricks here.


There are few "tricks" to fighting speeding tickets. That's why there isn't a bevvy of information about fighting them. They're not terribly easy to beat in court, either. Suffice to say, this is it:

- Upon receiving ticket, examine for fatal errors. If they exist, do not respond to the ticket. (Provided it is a part I offence notice.)
- If no fatal errors, file paperwork to fight ticket. Wait for court date, then file for disclosure. Be specific with what you want.
- Disclosure: Notes & relevant parts of manual, maybe photo/video evidence if it exists. If still incomplete after multiple requests, file for a stay.
- Notes: Device test before & after stop must be noted. Officer must observe vehicle travelling above speed limit, then activate & use device, stop vehicle without sight lost and identify driver. Any of that's missing - depends on what officer testifies to. But the before/after times MUST be noted.
- Manual: Review for any tips/tricks in testing or use that may trip up the officer.
- Length of delay to trial: 11 months or more = File "11B" for stay of proceedings.
- Day of trial. Plea bargain is your choice. See if officer shows up.
- Officer asks if they can use notes. JP will ask if you object - ask if officer has "independent recollection" of the events. Yes - no problem. No - object to use of notes.
- Trial. Questions for cross-examination are case-specific. If the officer is solid and concise, it is difficult to win. You could ask "could you briefly describe the procedure you used to test the device?" and compare it to the manufacturer's procedures, etc. But it is all specific to the case.

Speeding is an absolute liability offence, unless the charge of stunt driving for 50 km/h or more over the limit is used, in which case it is strict liability. For "regular speeding," once they prove that you exceeded the speed limit, the only defence you have is defence of necessity.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
- Officer asks if they can use notes. JP will ask if you object - ask if officer has "independent recollection" of the events. Yes - no problem. No - object to use of notes.


That is what the notes are...an independent (made on my own) recollection (made them after the fact)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:38 am 
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Thanks Radar Identified.
I will make sure I study those tricks and use them when the trial date comes. One question, once a trial date is set, do i have to ask for a disclosure in advance or go to trial and ask for disclosure and will the judge set another date then?

And about the question of two lanes on highway 400, it was near port severn.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:40 am 
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And i am not sure if it is still highway 400 near port severn or 69. Its going towards sudbury!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:08 am 
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hwybear wrote:
That is what the notes are...an independent (made on my own) recollection (made them after the fact)


Here's some boring case law on "independent recollection" for an HTA case:

R. v. Kassam, 2007

Duke wrote:
One question, once a trial date is set, do i have to ask for a disclosure in advance or go to trial and ask for disclosure and will the judge set another date then?


You should have your disclosure before you appear at trial. As soon as you have the trial date set, you can make the disclosure request. It often takes up to 8 weeks for them to put the disclosure package together. See here:

http://www.ticketcombat.com/step4/disclosurehow.php

One word of caution. The Crown Prosecutor's office has a disclosure form they want you to use. Do NOT use it. Also, ticketcombat's website has a great SAMPLE disclosure form, but you need to tailor it to the offence. For speeding, you should be asking for things like:

- Full copy of the officer's notes, typed if not clearly legible
- Copy of the manual of the speed-measuring device used by the officer
- Photographic/video evidence, if any exists and the Crown intends to use it at trial

And that's about it. While ticketcombat suggests "at a minimum, you should ask for..." and then goes on to list things like "any statements made by the defendant," etc. I would advise against it. Likewise, some US websites suggest asking for a mountain of material. Don't do that. The goal is to get the stuff that will enable you to make a full answer and defence to the charge. If your disclosure request is focused and concise, the JP will have a much easier time staying the charge if the Crown does not provide it, or parts of it. If the disclosure request focuses on stuff that doesn't exist (e.g. "calibration record of the tuning forks," or "statements made by the defendant") or stuff that is unnecessary and overkill (e.g. "witness will-say statements"), it becomes harder to get the stay.

Anyway... like I said earlier, I would've just paid a 15-over, but if you're aware of the risk (speed rising to 20 km/h over) and wish to go ahead, it's your decision.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:42 pm 
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Thanks Radar Identified,
Those notes are very helpful. Much appreciated. What are my choices if i have already pleaded not guilty and now I decide just to pay, is there anyway i can do? Or do I have to now attend a trial? Just a question?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:54 pm 
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You can attend you local fines office, advise them of your court date and that you wish to pay. They'll take your payment and have you removed from the docket. Or just not go, you'll be found guilty in absentia, plus a $5 court cost.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:00 pm 
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You could plead guilty at trial. The only advantage of pleading guilty to the lower charge is the reduced fine amount. Demerit points don't affect your insurance rates. They may indicate what's considered "major" or "minor." In general, just about everything is considered "minor," such as speeding 1-44km/h over the limit (some companies will treat anything up to 49km/h as minor), running a red, not signaling a turn/lane change... Major offenses include "stunting/street racing," careless and not stopping for a school bus. So, 125, 120, 115, 101, all net you the same insurance rate increase.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Quote:
I never knew an area where there was 2 lanes on the 400. I learned something new...where is this?


Most us civvies refer to the number of lanes in the direction of travel. So if it's a 4-lane highway, we usually say 2 lanes because all we're interested in is the number of lanes that we can use at one time.
Edit: Once you go a bit above Barrie, last time I checked, most of 400 was 2 lanes per direction (4 lanes). Since it's been a couple of years since I've taken the 400 above Barrie, I can't guarantee that they haven't expanded it a bit, but I'd doubt it.. So far it's mostly been 400-extension projects, as most of 69 is brutal for passing.

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