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42km Over, Cannot Request Disclosure, Need Advice
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 pm
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Hi,

My name is Vince and I am new to this forum.

On September 14, 2015, I received a 42km over the speed limit ticket on the 407 near Kennedy Rd. I opted to plea not guilty and showed up to the court house in Newmarket (York Region) to request a court date. Finally I received a notice of trial in the mail on March 3, 2016 for a court date on May 10, 2016. Attached was another letter from the York Region Provincial Offences Administration with general advice ("this is not legal advice" printed on top). The letter stated that "all requests must be submitted at least 3 months prior to your scheduled court date". The date the notice of trial was completed on was February 29, 2016.

I was on my way to school, which is of course extremely important to me and have already received many academic awards (some are highly recognized, but I do not want to start name dropping) indicating this, so I was in a bit of a rush but I have a few issues with the ticket I received as follows:

1. The officer would not lower it after I told him I was on my way to school and could be late and school is very important to me and then after the ticket was handed to me I *reminded* him of this and he said I should have told him sooner and instead of arguing I just took the ticket.

2. I do not believe I was going nearly that fast and was not shown radar evidence and I did not agree to the charge.

3. How is it possible that they are allowed to issue the notice 2.5 months before my trail date, but I have to request disclosure a minimum of 3 months before my trial date? (Is this violation of my rights?)

Any opinion or advice on this matter is greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Vince


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Re: 42km Over, Cannot Request Disclosure, Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 549
I'm not sure why the York Region letter says 3 months. The accepted guidelines is that the crown has 6-8 weeks to process disclosure requests in the province of ON.

Lets say that your notice of trial was received <6 weeks from your trial date; there is nothing stopping you from requesting disclosure. If the crown argues they don't have enough time to process it; you're still in a better position because you requested for it at the earliest opportunity.

If the delays/adjournments lead to an 11b charter challenge; it could be argued that the delays were not neutral/your-fault, rather they're systematic and you shouldn't be prejudiced by them.

Your academic achievements are irrelevant to the charge, I would not bring them up whatsoever; the only defence to speeding under S128 in Ontario is the "necessity defence"; speeding is an absolute liability offence. From what you described the defence of necessity is not afforded to you.

Request disclosure at the prosecutor's office at Tannery Mall as soon as possible, do not use their form. Use this Sample Disclosure Form, bring two copies: one for them, one for you and get your copy stamped with 'received/date'.

You'll see the speed he obtained in the disclosure request, and how he obtained it, along with testing notes and pages. Officer does not need to show you his radar/lidar reading at the side of the road. If he does show it to you, it's merely a courtesy. He shouldn't risk his life to argue the charge on the shoulder, especially on a freeway where the average speeds are well in excess of the posted limit.

Is this the first time you've driven on the 407? OPP do speed enforcement every hour of every day at the EXACT SAME enforcement points. They're out there so often even streetview has them.

WB 407 @ 427: https://goo.gl/maps/gqWkMyhkWJR2
EB 407 @ Keele: https://goo.gl/maps/FTsskmXjEwK2

It's just a matter of staying well below 130 as you pass these points. They're literally shooting fish in a barrel IMO, with tow trucks waiting on on-ramps for the stunt-tow calls.

They also have large signs just ahead of their enforcement points that say "Move Over for Emergency Vehicles"; suggesting that somebody is going to get pulled over up ahead.

I'm not sure how much more obvious they can be about their presence on the 407. Their OPP twitter accounts routinely have tweets with pictures of them doing enforcement there. If you use @waze you also get a heads up whether they're there or not.


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Re: 42km Over, Cannot Request Disclosure, Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:39 pm
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I graciously appreciate the information given that helps clarify the disclosure issues and the necessity defence (was hoping the importance of education would at least build a character and how the speeding was somewhat of a necessity for my anxiety on being late).

Is there really a point to requesting my disclosure this close to the trail? (it is in approximately 4 weeks from this post). At first I thought the disclosure problem (receiving the trial notice 10 weeks before my court date, and the letter claiming disclosure needed request minimum 3 months prior to the court date) would be a way to get out of the ticket. A friend recently brought it to my attention that I should double check with someone more knowledgable (why I am on this forum).

So, should I still request disclosure even though it is really close to the court date so at least I know the evidence against me? (will I even get it?)


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Re: 42km Over, Cannot Request Disclosure, Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1004
vince191919 wrote:
Is there really a point to requesting my disclosure this close to the trail? (it is in approximately 4 weeks from this post). At first I thought the disclosure problem (receiving the trial notice 10 weeks before my court date, and the letter claiming disclosure needed request minimum 3 months prior to the court date) would be a way to get out of the ticket. A friend recently brought it to my attention that I should double check with someone more knowledgable (why I am on this forum).


Yes, if you plan on going to trial you should request it. It's summed up really well by iFly55. If they can't provide it in time, let them worry about it. Most likely they won't provide it in time and your case will be adjourned to another date. Since it's 4 weeks away, it's not your fault and it's not theirs. If you don't request it, then it's your problem to deal with. Either they adjourn the date and charge the delay against you or they go ahead with the trial. Your trial date is your day to have a trial. It's not the day to ask questions and start requesting things. Request it and be done with it.

No, it's not a way to get out of a ticket.


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Re: 42km Over, Cannot Request Disclosure, Need Advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
You could actually wait until the day of your trial to request disclosure (not a good idea though), but if you request it then they have to get it for you so you can "properly prepare your defense and fully answer the charge".

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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