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Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:35 am 
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Hey guys I was hoping for some advice on my first ever ticket.

I just moved to the Aurora area and made a prohibited left turn between the prohibited hours. This is my very first ticket so I am unsure as to how to precede. I have already requested and received my court date and I assume the next step is to file for disclosure. How would I go about doing that?

Also where the sign is that prohibits the left turn their is temporary scaffolding for an apartment buiding that completely hides the sign until the last second before the turn. Is there a certain law or by-law that states how long in advance a sign must be posted? My thought was to take lots of pictures of the area in question with the sign hidden and ask the judge to dismiss based on the fact that the sign could not be seen by me. Any advice would be awesome thank you guys!


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Re: Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:00 am 
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Hi!

Ok so a few things: disclosure is sent from Crown to you. You are not required to disclose anything to Crown prior to trial unless you want to, as is your right. Of course you may disclose your defense to Crown in a pre-screen meeting in hopes they will agree with you and either pull the charge or amend it, but it is entirely up to you.

As for the signage, if I understand correctly what you are saying, there is no time required to "warn" that a sign will be posted. It has to be poste by municipal, provincial or federal governments to be valid, and meet the regulation requirements, but short of that once is up, it's valid (notwithstanding an Aurora by-law as I am unfamiliar with them).

Reading your post, you may mean how far before the intersection it needs to be, in which case as long as it is visible where the action is prohibited, it is valid.

Your idea to take pics is the way to go, but beware that you may be challenged about the time of the photos; if you took them at the time of the offence or shortly thereafter, they are valid. If you took them say a month later, they *may* be dismissed, or their value diminished.

Finally, the crux of the issue is whether or not the sign was reasonably visible; if there is something 50m in front of it won't help you, as opposed to if the obstruction is a few feet in front...

Good luck!

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I am not a lawyer or para-legal: I do not offer legal advice nor should my comments be interpreted as such.
I believe in respecting the law; don't be offended if I don't agree with you.


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Re: Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:27 am 
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I appreciate your response. What I am saying is that the sign is hidden by scaffolding. According to this link https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900615#BK5

A sign prescribed by this Regulation, other than a sign prescribed by section 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 26 or 27, shall be so placed as to be visible at all times for a distance of at least 60 metres to the traffic approaching the sign. O. Reg. 175/08, s. 15.

The sign is not visible 60m away so would that not be considered a violation of this regulation thus making the sign not enforceable


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Re: Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:40 am 
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Torque^ wrote:
A sign prescribed by this Regulation, other than a sign prescribed by section 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 26 or 27, shall be so placed as to be visible at all times for a distance of at least 60 metres to the traffic approaching the sign.


You are correct, my apologies I misunderstood what you meant and to make matters worse, made a typo in my example (meant to write 500m, not 50).

So to summarize yes, no obstruction 60m in front of the sign, but the sign itself can be at the intersection. If you can explain this to the JP and they agree with it, I think you have a solid explanation.

Good luck!

_________________
I am not a lawyer or para-legal: I do not offer legal advice nor should my comments be interpreted as such.
I believe in respecting the law; don't be offended if I don't agree with you.


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Re: Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:42 am 
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Thank you for your help. One last question, when do I speak to a JP is it before my court date or when I arrive at my court date?


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Re: Prohibited Turn Sign Cannot be Seen
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:59 am 
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JP means Justice of the Peace; in most POA Courts, JP preside, not Judges. So you won't really talk with the JP per se.

You will show up to Court, may or may not speak with Crown prosecutor before hand, then if you go to trial you will enter a plea, the Crown lays out the case, Officer testifies, you ask questions then you can introduce your evidence (photos).

You may or may not take the stand, but if you do you will be questioned by Crown.

Finally each side makes a submission - what they think and why, and the JP decides. Don't worry, JPs always walk you through it quite carefully. Everyone understands you're not a lawyer.

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I am not a lawyer or para-legal: I do not offer legal advice nor should my comments be interpreted as such.
I believe in respecting the law; don't be offended if I don't agree with you.


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