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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:58 am 
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OK try this one: The ideallogy of the designer is that the plate is the target. Ideally it is the first thing hit, being at the front of the car. What happens when the plate is not the first thing to be hit??????????? That info is locked up in the designers head and won't be released due to the fact that it can be used by the other companies.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:10 pm 
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The diagram still does not relate properly. I must be missing something in the description....all of a sudden we go from vehicles to a plate?
If it is to mean two targets at the same time....the lidar will not compute that and gives the operator an error.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:19 am 
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Hi Bear:

That’s what I’m wondering about. A lidar doesn’t send a constant beam, but a series of pulses. There’s a microprocessor inside the lidar which tries to make sense of all signals received from all those pulses. It’s going to try to get an average speed and throw out what could be noise. What if it locks onto car1’s speed and thinks car2’s speed is noise?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:19 am 
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Sorry racer. I didn’t mean to hijack my own post.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:33 pm 
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Imax wrote:
A lidar doesn’t send a constant beam, but a series of pulses. There’s a microprocessor inside the lidar which tries to make sense of all signals received from all those pulses. It’s going to try to get an average speed and throw out what could be noise. What if it locks onto car1’s speed and thinks car2’s speed is noise?


The lidar sends out more than 60 pulses per second. If 2 vehicles happen to be in the same beam, it will reject both and display an error message and NO speed reading. I am an operator of the unit, not an instructor, nor a scientist. If a dentist can use a lidar to fix my tooth or optometrist can fix my eyeball or military to guide bombs or reconstructionists to investigate traffic collisions, I think lidar is pretty precise.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:12 am 
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hwybear wrote:
Imax wrote:
A lidar doesn’t send a constant beam, but a series of pulses. There’s a microprocessor inside the lidar which tries to make sense of all signals received from all those pulses. It’s going to try to get an average speed and throw out what could be noise. What if it locks onto car1’s speed and thinks car2’s speed is noise?


The lidar sends out more than 60 pulses per second. If 2 vehicles happen to be in the same beam, it will reject both and display an error message and NO speed reading. I am an operator of the unit, not an instructor, nor a scientist. If a dentist can use a lidar to fix my tooth or optometrist can fix my eyeball or military to guide bombs or reconstructionists to investigate traffic collisions, I think lidar is pretty precise.


When the beam is sent it hits the entire car. The gun will recieve the reflections from every point that is facing the gun. Thus, the amount of filtering done by the gun is extremely large. Now, when you target just the front plate, you are hitting the entire front end of the car. There are 3 good targets on the front of a vehicle, the plate and the 2 headlights. What you are saying about multiple targets doesn't add up.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:33 am 
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I don’t doubt that if two vehicles are in the same beam, experience says that a lidar will reject both and display an error message and no speed reading. I have no problems in seeing a lidar being able to get the speed of car1, but the angles for car2 are really tight. I’m guessing the lidar for car2 would need to be moved from what’s in the NURBS pics, possibly aiming at the closest headlight. Given the tight angle and beam divergence, I can only see two possibilities. The lidar is reading car1 speed or it’s reading an error message.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:57 am 
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Imax wrote:
I have no problems in seeing a lidar being able to get the speed of car1, but the angles for car2 are really tight.


That is a better explanation of what I have been saying.......that IF the pictures were to scale (ie vehicles should be 2.6m wide) then there might be less chance a lidar could get #2.

Veh 1 width of 2.6m, 500m the beam is 1.5m wide...therefore the whole beam can be placed on the car...

Veh 2 width is 2.6m, 570m the beam width is 1.71m wide...therfore the whole beam can be placed on the car.

Now what we have is the angle from the lidar to the vehicles, on a angle, can it target the 2nd vehicle? There is also sideways movement within the lane (as it is 3.75m wide) that also is not taken into account. Which each vehicle could move 1.15m left or right. This could add up to another 2.30m of lateral difference.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:10 pm 
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Another "angle".........If you, the officer, can't get a reading off the plate of a vehicle then you are told to aim at the headlight. Would an officer try to get the second vehicle with only the headlight, drivers side, and mistakenly sample the first car?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:54 pm 
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In the training I have received.....we have always been told to target the front licence plate, if no plate, front centre between headlights OR on occassion the rear plate.....NEVER anywhere else and NEVER a partial corner (ie corner headlight) that is just stupid and not being used properly.

I am not that hard up for tickets to start corner jabbing vehicles. There will be another vehicle come along if I wait long enough. I won't lose sleep over it as the vehicles are still travelling even when I'm home.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:38 am 
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Hi Bear:

I like your new avatar. Must check donut specifications - diameter, glazing thickness, and, most important, freshness. :)

I’ve never used a lidar. :oops:

I look at health products and products that can have an impact on health. I can’t see how a lidar can measure the speed of car2. The angles are too tight.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:26 pm 
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Imax wrote:
Hi Bear:

I like your new avatar. Must check donut specifications - diameter, glazing thickness, and, most important, freshness. :)


Especially the freshness.....and as Homer would say....mmmm donuts! :lol:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Imax wrote:
I can’t see how a lidar can measure the speed of car2. The angles are too tight.


Simply, if it's in too close to V1 then it can not be targeted.

Now having said that, has the officer watched these 2 vehicles over time and neither appear to be gaining or pulling away from the other....then going relatively the same speed(within 5km/hr of each other). Could stop the 2nd one for speeding OR even follow too close.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:00 pm 
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Hi Bear:

As possibly the only one with lidar experience on this board, have you ever clocked two cars, one at 500 m and the other directly behind at 570m, and then managed to stop both cars by yourself ? (without causing an accident :) )


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Imax wrote:
Hi Bear:
As possibly the only one with lidar experience on this board, have you ever clocked two cars, one at 500 m and the other directly behind at 570m, and then managed to stop both cars by yourself ? (without causing an accident :) )


I can only remember one of those types of stops about 3yrs ago. I have clocked 2 vehicles before (in the 150-155km/hr range) and successfully stopped both. This was about 3yrs ago (pre 172 era) I still remember the one vehicle (unusual vehicle travelling that speed) but don't remember the distances.

The most I have stopped at once is 9 vehicles. Great big line of vehicles, so I took out the lead vehicle and the 8 others stopped :shock: ....all related and travelling together!! That was before the car-pool era!

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