Different speed limits on each direction of the road

gabe
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Different speed limits on each direction of the road

by: gabe on
Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:50 pm

I was stopped by a officer who claims I was doing 72km/h in a 50km/h zone. I was travelling Southbound on Dougall Ave. in Windsor, ON. In the Southbound lane there is a sign posted that says 50 km/h probably a few hundred metres away from the intersection he clocked my speed at. Just so you really understand after the 50km/h it turns into an 80km/h then merges into the 401. (Literally when I stopped the vehicle I was 10 ft. away from an 80km/h sign).

The Northbound lane of this street at the same intersection is a 60km/h zone. There is a posted 60km/h sign in the Northbound lane 200 metres before the intersection. This sign is not posted on the Southbound lane.

Basically if I would have been driving in the opposite direction I would have only been doing 12km/h instead of 22km/h over the speed limit. Is this a valid argument in court? There were no special circumstances at the time (ex. construction, special events, etc.)

Today is my appointment to meet with the prosecutor i'm going to tell him exactly what happened hopefully he can drop the ticket. Please let me know what anyone thinks or if I can get away from this. This officer was hiding out in a side street where speed limits increase so he obviously was out to get someone.


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by: Reflections on
Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:07 pm

We have covered this before....let me see if i can find the post.... in the meantime, take pictures and explain it to the crown, i believe they will drop to 12 over at the least.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: gabe on
Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:02 am

I just was reading the OHTA and found this:

Variable speed limits

128.0.1 (1) The Minister may designate any highway or portion of a highway where variable maximum rates of speed may be set in accordance with this section. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Same

(2) An official of the Ministry authorized by the Minister in writing may, from time to time, set a maximum rate of speed for a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1) or for each lane, direction of travel or class or type of motor vehicle on a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1). 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.


**Does this mean my argument how can there be two different speed limits in each direction becomes invalid?


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by: Reflections on
Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:31 pm

gabe wrote:I just was reading the OHTA and found this:

Variable speed limits

128.0.1 (1) The Minister may designate any highway or portion of a highway where variable maximum rates of speed may be set in accordance with this section. 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.

Same

(2) An official of the Ministry authorized by the Minister in writing may, from time to time, set a maximum rate of speed for a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1) or for each lane, direction of travel or class or type of motor vehicle on a highway or portion of a highway designated under subsection (1). 2005, c. 26, Sched. A, s. 18.


**Does this mean my argument how can there be two different speed limits in each direction becomes invalid?
Nope, they would have to give you a reason for doing so. Have you every been on any real road where the speed limit travelling in the opposite direction is different from yours.... if so name the reason.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: matt123 on
Wed Oct 12, 2011 7:17 pm

What some officers do in Windsor is just plain wrong.You have just been introduced to one of the many fishing holes set up by our wonderful city,the speed trap capital of Ontario as described in Windsor star article two weeks ago.It is a well known fact that they post varying speed limits on our roads for no reason.Without saying a word your ticket will be dropped to no points and like the criminal you are you will be rushed into the courtroom and expected to be thankful they dropped it.You will also notice that 90% of the stop lights are programed in such a way that you must speed a minimum of 15kph over the limit or you will catch every red light,this is how they get ya.Another well known factoid of our city is to put the speed limit sign 50 metres from the end of the road and have it marked artificially low then set up the trap at he mid way point so you don't see the sign(Chrysler Center).If you got busted by the grey haired cop that looks like Anderson Copper that's his specialty.
It's so bad here that as soon as you get out of city limits the difference is immediately noticeable.How we let them do this is amazing since there are numerous complaints sent into the news paper on a regular basis.Even one of our counselors has lodged formal complaints without response and when they did respond the supervisor had the gall to let them take a picture sitting on his desk with his arms crossed as he basically said to bad.His body language alone was enough to send the counselor into orbit.Guess what nothing ever did or will change.This counselor even drove around town filming the stop lights to prove it.I'm not making it up these are known facts around here.




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by: gabe on
Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:11 am

matt123 wrote:What some officers do in Windsor is just plain wrong.You have just been introduced to one of the many fishing holes set up by our wonderful city,the speed trap capital of Ontario as described in Windsor star article two weeks ago.It is a well known fact that they post varying speed limits on our roads for no reason.Without saying a word your ticket will be dropped to no points and like the criminal you are you will be rushed into the courtroom and expected to be thankful they dropped it.You will also notice that 90% of the stop lights are programed in such a way that you must speed a minimum of 15kph over the limit or you will catch every red light,this is how they get ya.Another well known factoid of our city is to put the speed limit sign 50 metres from the end of the road and have it marked artificially low then set up the trap at he mid way point so you don't see the sign(Chrysler Center).If you got busted by the grey haired cop that looks like Anderson Copper that's his specialty.
It's so bad here that as soon as you get out of city limits the difference is immediately noticeable.How we let them do this is amazing since there are numerous complaints sent into the news paper on a regular basis.Even one of our counselors has lodged formal complaints without response and when they did respond the supervisor had the gall to let them take a picture sitting on his desk with his arms crossed as he basically said to bad.His body language alone was enough to send the counselor into orbit.Guess what nothing ever did or will change.This counselor even drove around town filming the stop lights to prove it.I'm not making it up these are known facts around here.
Thanks for the links. So what should I do to prepare for court? Just bring a map with label where all the speed limit signs are showing exactly where I was pulled over?
I've created a Google Map using street view to locate the signs then marked them on the map. This link will bring you to show you the speed limit signs. Clicking on the markers will bring up what type of sign and what side of the road it was on.

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid=2159 ... 4026&msa=0

I was driving Northbound on Dougall when he caught me doing 72km/h at the Dougall and Darcy St. intersection.


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by: matt123 on
Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:34 pm

I would wait for Reflections or someone else to get back to you as he/they surely know the drill better than me.I just wanted to point out how sneaky the system is in Windsor and how they commonly drop the charge the second you sit down with the prosecutor as many of my friends and myself have had the same ticket right down to the speed in the same type of situation.They sucker you in because they know you think it's a 60 they and can get you at 20 over since most drivers will push 10 over and think they will be ok.It's a money grab not a public safety issue and they seem to go by sheer volume.
The last time I went to talk to the prosecutor I barely noted that the last sign I saw was 60kph at the corner of Grand and Chrysler Center.The next thing I knew I was getting pulled over in a 50kph zone when every other street that intersects or runs parallel is a 60kph and the that the only 50km speed limit sign was 500m further down the road and 50m from Tecumseh where it ends.
I got nailed because in it's 50kph in an industrial zone unless posted otherwise and since it was posted at 60kph at the corner you think it's 60 and there are no other signs until it's to late.The beauty of it is that as soon as Chrysler Center crosses Tecumseh the name changes to Droullard and it's back to 60kph in a residential area.
I doubt you can win but I'm positive they will drop it to 15 over by just showing up.If you fight they will probably make the 22 over stick.Both are minors so insurance will see it the same It's the points that and fine that are different.
good luck


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by: gabe on
Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:02 pm

matt123 wrote:I would wait for Reflections or someone else to get back to you as he/they surely know the drill better than me.I just wanted to point out how sneaky the system is in Windsor and how they commonly drop the charge the second you sit down with the prosecutor as many of my friends and myself have had the same ticket right down to the speed in the same type of situation.They sucker you in because they know you think it's a 60 they and can get you at 20 over since most drivers will push 10 over and think they will be ok.It's a money grab not a public safety issue and they seem to go by sheer volume.
The last time I went to talk to the prosecutor I barely noted that the last sign I saw was 60kph at the corner of Grand and Chrysler Center.The next thing I knew I was getting pulled over in a 50kph zone when every other street that intersects or runs parallel is a 60kph and the that the only 50km speed limit sign was 500m further down the road and 50m from Tecumseh where it ends.
I got nailed because in it's 50kph in an industrial zone unless posted otherwise and since it was posted at 60kph at the corner you think it's 60 and there are no other signs until it's to late.The beauty of it is that as soon as Chrysler Center crosses Tecumseh the name changes to Droullard and it's back to 60kph in a residential area.
I doubt you can win but I'm positive they will drop it to 15 over by just showing up.If you fight they will probably make the 22 over stick.Both are minors so insurance will see it the same It's the points that and fine that are different.
good luck
I could care less about the fine at this point. I'm willing to waste the time of all the people that work at the Provincial Offences Office just because it doesn't cost me more money to fight the ticket. I've literally thought about it and I can't think of any other street that has a different speed limit in opposite directions under regular conditions.
hopefully reflections can give me an idea about what exactly to go into the courtroom with to try to get the charge dropped. or at least a ticket for 12km/h over the limit.


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by: Reflections on
Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:57 am

You said it before, print off a map and mark the speed signs, try to show the direction of travel associated with the signs as well. There is no reason whatsoever that I can think of that would allow, say east bound traffic to travel faster then west bound traffic<< just an example.

Example #2. 4-series highways, the only time I see different speeds on opposite sides is if there is construction, other then that 100 on both sides. And if there is a point where the speed changes, faster in one direction slower in the other, then you can bet the signs are at the same point of the road directly opposite each other.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: matt123 on
Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:56 am

I don't see a problem getting it knocked down to 12kph over they seem to offer 15 and no points right off the bat here.Be sure to request a meeting with the prosecutor when you fill out the paperwork if you want to go that rout.If you can make a deal with him you will be sent into the courtroom right away to plead guilty to the lesser charge.I was just trying to say the only difference between 1 and 20 over is points and the fine,insurance looks at both as a minor conviction so going to court may very well be worth it to get the entire charge dropped.The difference is only about $50 your time and 3 points if I remember right.Points aren't a big deal unless you already have some against you or have a hybrid license.If you do I suggest you fight for them.It takes two years for them to come off you license.Also check out the Ticket Combat website if you get a chance.


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by: gabe on
Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:09 pm

matt123 wrote:I don't see a problem getting it knocked down to 12kph over they seem to offer 15 and no points right off the bat here.Be sure to request a meeting with the prosecutor when you fill out the paperwork if you want to go that rout.If you can make a deal with him you will be sent into the courtroom right away to plead guilty to the lesser charge.I was just trying to say the only difference between 1 and 20 over is points and the fine,insurance looks at both as a minor conviction so going to court may very well be worth it to get the entire charge dropped.The difference is only about $50 your time and 3 points if I remember right.Points aren't a big deal unless you already have some against you or have a hybrid license.If you do I suggest you fight for them.It takes two years for them to come off you license.Also check out the Ticket Combat website if you get a chance.
btw thanks for hat ticket combat site. i already went to try to talk to the prosecutor a few days ago to tell him exactly the situation. the guy was a complete dick and basically told me he didn't want to her anything unless I was will to accept some type of offer. I think its complete BS that there can be two different speed limits in each direction, so i told him unless his offer is to drop the ticket i wanted to setup a court date. he gave me a copy of the officer that pulled me overs notes. it was typed out so i could read it but there were a lot of short forms in it. i'm going to type it out and if you cant decipher any of it i would appreciate it. also should I ask for any more disclosure? the copy of the notes is all i got.

"-clear/warm/dry/sunny"
"stat b.c.v at Darcy" (Darcy being the name of the street he was hiding on)
"-obs 4dr compact niss app s/b from intersection of Roseland"
"-veh continuous acceeration" (with spelling errors...lol)
"-#2, radar 68------>72x2"
"-stop m/w lone"
"-area prop posted 50"
"-stopped veh just north of posted 80km/h "begins" sign at Dougall pkway"

"********PC Ferrari issued same male pon for speed 92/60 in April '11

under this there is a showing of my 2 other convictions -unsafe move in windsor
-disobey legal sign

unsafe move was originally a careless driving given to me when i crashed my motorcycle into a guard rail on a 401 exit (no other vehicles involved)
disobey legal sign was originally a speeding 92km/h in a 60km/h originally noted on the officers notes.

i've already created a google map with the speed limit signs marked where they are in each direction also with the spot he wrote on the ticket he caught me Darcy at Dougall.




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by: gabe on
Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:16 pm

cruzmisl wrote:Was the 92/60 going northbound on the same road. Prosecutors typically won't be too excited to make a deal with a previous ticket for a similar offence in less than a year.
the 92/60 was in april 2011, it was on a completely different street. northbound on ouellette just before you head up the overpass to go over the train tracks. its to late anyways for deal making, i wasn't looking for deal making i was looking for ticket quashing.
is it legal for one road to have two different speed limits?


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by: cruzmisl on
Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:28 pm

I can't think of any reason why it would be illegal. If the limit is 50 then its 50 regardless of being near the 401 or other circumstances. Your chances of getting it dismissed is slim to none IMHO. Looking at googlemaps though it looks like the 92/60 is the same street (different name) but further north. Not that it matters in this case but just sayin'


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