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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zone
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 10:35 pm 
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On Saturday, my daughter was charged with speeding while driving through a park in Woodstock. She was charged with 40 km in a 20 km zone - which means 3 points and $95.00 fine. It happened around 9:00 pm. nobody was in the park... the roads were slightly icy.

She is 17. A good kid, honour roll, blah, blah. Yes, I am disappointed in her, and have taken her license away for 3 months and maybe more- but I also do not want this on her record.

Items to note are: she does not believe there was a radar gun involved. I am pretty sure not, as when I talked to the officer, he did not mention it and just said he followed her. (with no flashing lights on at all - ever). She pulled to the side on her own account when she saw him.
The office was quite mean to her and yelled at her. Yes, I know they need to send a message to teenagers, but I don't see the need to be mean and totally disrespectful.

I am planning to go with Option 3. I do not understand the 2 check boxes under Option 3. What is the difference between 1. "I intend to appear in court to enter a plea of not guilty at the time and place set for the trial "... and 2. "I intend to challenge the evidence of the Provincial Offences Officer..."
Can someone explain this to me?

Would I have any success in going to the police station and talking to the Supervisor to get his/her recommendation on how to proceed with this.?

If this goes to court, what are my chances of this being thrown out because of ; 1. no radar 2. her age and no previous convictions ??

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 12:05 am 
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I am planning to go with Option 3. I do not understand the 2 check boxes under Option 3. What is the difference between 1. "I intend to appear in court to enter a plea of not guilty at the time and place set for the trial "... and 2. "I intend to challenge the evidence of the Provincial Offences Officer..."
Can someone explain this to me?


-You will want to check both boxes under option 3. The first box indicates that you want to book a court date to challenge the ticket. The second box indicates that you want the officer to appear in court so that you can challenge his evidence. If you don't tick this box then the officer doesn't have to show up to testify. If this goes all the way to trial then you will want the officer to take the stand so you can ask him question regarding the charge. Also there is always a chance he will fail to show up despite being requested to appear in which case the ticket will most likely be withdrawn.

Would I have any success in going to the police station and talking to the Supervisor to get his/her recommendation on how to proceed with this.?

-No, the supervisor will probably just reiterate the options on the back of the ticket and then tell you to hire a paralegal if you need more advice. The only reason to contact the supervisor is if you feel the actions of the officer were so out of line that they warrant a formal complaint.

If this goes to court, what are my chances of this being thrown out because of ; 1. no radar 2. her age and no previous convictions ??

-The lack of a radar probably won't help. Officers can use a technique known as pacing where the simply match the speed of the car in front of them for a certain distance and use the reading on the cruiser's speedometer. The courts have recognized this as an acceptable way to determine a cars speed. You daughter's age and previous lack of convictions won't be enough to get the ticket thrown out completely. However they would be useful things to point out if you decide to plea bargain with the prosecutor for a lower charge.

For now the best thing to do is probably file for a court date and then wait for the notice of trial to come in the mail. Once the notice of trial arrives you can file a disclosure request to get a copy of the officer's notes. Once you have those you will be able to see his version of events and that will help you build a defence to the ticket. Once you get a copy of the disclosure post it here, many of the posters will be happy to look at it and see if their is an obvious angle to mount a defence.


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:12 am 
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Thank you so much, Daggx. Your reply is very helpful .. I will follow your advice.
Have a great day.


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:15 pm 
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I just received notice of our court date today. It is August 6th. I am going to go and request the officer's disclosure report.

AND, this situation is more complicated. After reading through our daughters texts... we find out she wasn't driving the car. She had let her 15 year old friend drive. UGH. Of course underage, no license. When the office stopped them, he jumped in the back seat and she switched to the driver seat. I don't know how he didn't see them, other than it was a dark night and we have tinted windows. We cannot prove this. We do have texts from him, saying he told her to get in the passenger seat when she picked him up. We also have texts of him bullying her to let him drive. So, I do not know if I should mention it at court.
Any advice? Also... when do we get to talk to the prosecutor ?


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:09 pm 
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worriedmom wrote:
I just received notice of our court date today. It is August 6th. I am going to go and request the officer's disclosure report.

AND, this situation is more complicated. After reading through our daughters texts... we find out she wasn't driving the car. She had let her 15 year old friend drive. UGH. Of course underage, no license. When the office stopped them, he jumped in the back seat and she switched to the driver seat. I don't know how he didn't see them, other than it was a dark night and we have tinted windows. We cannot prove this. We do have texts from him, saying he told her to get in the passenger seat when she picked him up. We also have texts of him bullying her to let him drive. So, I do not know if I should mention it at court.
Any advice? Also... when do we get to talk to the prosecutor ?


Hmm check the laws, if your daughter can get in trouble for allowing him, then your daughter needs to take the blame otherwise go ahead and tell the cops about this. Don't be too harsh on your daughter, teens make mistakes and I'm sure she's learned her lesson very well and any action like taking away her license is mild compared to dealing with the police. But that's your call.

Do let the parents of her friend know. He doesn't really sound like a friend to be honest. Let her know that she could have got killed as he has no license and probably has worse driving skills than her.


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Thanks MsDeeya.... Yes we took her license away for 6 weeks. We hope she has learned her lesson and no, they are no longer friends or allowed to see each other.
We haven't talked the the boy's mom yet, but plan to. He will deny it, as we tried to get him to admit doing the specific act, in a text - guess he is smarter than we think?
Okay, I will go ahead and speak to an officer who is a friend of a friend to try and find out what the repercussions of her letting him drive.

If anyone else has any further opinions on this, I would appreciate it.


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:31 pm 
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worriedmom wrote:
Thanks MsDeeya.... Yes we took her license away for 6 weeks. We hope she has learned her lesson and no, they are no longer friends or allowed to see each other.
We haven't talked the the boy's mom yet, but plan to. He will deny it, as we tried to get him to admit doing the specific act, in a text - guess he is smarter than we think?
Okay, I will go ahead and speak to an officer who is a friend of a friend to try and find out what the repercussions of her letting him drive.

If anyone else has any further opinions on this, I would appreciate it.


Sounds like quite the genius. Though you couldn't expect better considering he had the guts to drive the car. Peer pressure can be harsh. While still a stupid thing to do its a good sign and shows that your daughter isn't really irresponsible but possibly finds it hard to say no and gives in to peer pressure easily. and possibly to naive to realize that it was actually a worse thing to do than speeding.


Driving should be taken seriously. I know someone who wanted to drive through some leaves collected in a private lot. They almost did but remembered to park again and rush to the store for something. When they got out they say a kid hidden behind the leaves playing. Imagine what could have been!


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:53 pm 
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There is a charge for allowing a person under 16 to drive a car.

Highway Traffic Act Section 37 (2) says "No person shall employ or permit anyone under the age of sixteen years to drive or operate a motor vehicle, street car, road-building machine, self-propelled implement of husbandry or farm tractor on a highway."

There is no set fine for this charge so if they laid this charge it would result in a mandatory court appearance for your daughter. I don't know if they would charge her given the circumstances, but it is a possibility, so that is something to keep in mind when deciding what to do.


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Re: Daugher (17) charged with speeding - 40 km in a 20km zon
PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:03 pm 
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Thanks Daggx. I went to the court administrative office today and asked for a release of the officer's notes. They gave me the prosecutor's email address and I have to email him and request it.
I am interested to see these notes.


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