Hello, I received this dreaded document by mail today. While I had crossed the red light a second after it turned, that was because a bus ahead was completely blocking my vision of the traffic lights. However, I have a few questions: 1) If I select option 2, and go for a trial pleading guilty, can they charge me personally for admitting to the error and give me demerit points? 2) If I choose option 3 (out of court settlement), and send the payment, do I still have to appear in court? 3) If I go myself to plead, what should I study and prepare? Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, N
Hello,
I received this dreaded document by mail today. While I had crossed the red light a second after it turned, that was because a bus ahead was completely blocking my vision of the traffic lights. However, I have a few questions:
1) If I select option 2, and go for a trial pleading guilty, can they charge me personally for admitting to the error and give me demerit points?
2) If I choose option 3 (out of court settlement), and send the payment, do I still have to appear in court?
3) If I go myself to plead, what should I study and prepare?
1) You can't get demerit points from a red light camera. You only get points if an officer gives you a ticket for running the red. I don't know how likely it is that they'd reduce your fine, others here can attest to that better than I can. 2) Not sure what you mean. I've never had a red light camera ticket (so I could be wrong here), but on a normal ticket option 3 means you're pleading not guilty, and you have to go to the courts to set a trial date. If you chose to plead guilty and pay the fine (option one on every ticket I've ever seen), then you just send the amount you owe in, or do it online with a credit card. You don't go to court or anything. 3) Read the forum. I'm in the process of dealing with a red light ticket myself, there's lots of info here, you just have to look around a bit. I would, however, advise that you don't use the excuse that you couldn't see the light due to the bus blocking you. You *technically* should of slowed down and proceeded with caution, if you could not see the lights. (Not trying to judge you, just pointing out that the courts probably won't be sympathetic to you). Red light camera tickets are difficult to beat (from what I've read and heard). Not impossible though, I do have one buddy that beat his, but there were extenuating circumstances (weather).
1) You can't get demerit points from a red light camera. You only get points if an officer gives you a ticket for running the red. I don't know how likely it is that they'd reduce your fine, others here can attest to that better than I can.
2) Not sure what you mean. I've never had a red light camera ticket (so I could be wrong here), but on a normal ticket option 3 means you're pleading not guilty, and you have to go to the courts to set a trial date. If you chose to plead guilty and pay the fine (option one on every ticket I've ever seen), then you just send the amount you owe in, or do it online with a credit card. You don't go to court or anything.
3) Read the forum. I'm in the process of dealing with a red light ticket myself, there's lots of info here, you just have to look around a bit. I would, however, advise that you don't use the excuse that you couldn't see the light due to the bus blocking you. You *technically* should of slowed down and proceeded with caution, if you could not see the lights. (Not trying to judge you, just pointing out that the courts probably won't be sympathetic to you).
Red light camera tickets are difficult to beat (from what I've read and heard). Not impossible though, I do have one buddy that beat his, but there were extenuating circumstances (weather).
With option 3 you can talk to the prosecutor under first attendance and you can ask for a lesser fine...just be like im sorry and bla bla bla bla.... These tickets dont have any points.
With option 3 you can talk to the prosecutor under first attendance and you can ask for a lesser fine...just be like im sorry and bla bla bla bla....
This is correct. It's an absolute liability offence, so not being able to see the colour of the light isn't a valid defence. I'm surprised they even accepted weather as a defence, as that should also be irrelevant for an absolute liability offence. Defence options are more limited then regular tickets. You pretty much hope for some kind of technical error or seek the reduced fine.
manwithaplan wrote:
I would, however, advise that you don't use the excuse that you couldn't see the light due to the bus blocking you. You *technically* should of slowed down and proceeded with caution, if you could not see the lights. (Not trying to judge you, just pointing out that the courts probably won't be sympathetic to you).
Red light camera tickets are difficult to beat (from what I've read and heard). Not impossible though, I do have one buddy that beat his, but there were extenuating circumstances (weather).
This is correct. It's an absolute liability offence, so not being able to see the colour of the light isn't a valid defence. I'm surprised they even accepted weather as a defence, as that should also be irrelevant for an absolute liability offence.
Defence options are more limited then regular tickets. You pretty much hope for some kind of technical error or seek the reduced fine.
Thanks! The options on this one seem different: Option 1: Plead not guilty Option 2: Plead guilty Option 3: Payment out of court For the third option we can send a cheque or our credit card details. I was confused about whether I also have to appear in court later if I choose option 3. Thanks
manwithaplan wrote:
1) You can't get demerit points from a red light camera. You only get points if an officer gives you a ticket for running the red. I don't know how likely it is that they'd reduce your fine, others here can attest to that better than I can.
2) Not sure what you mean. I've never had a red light camera ticket (so I could be wrong here), but on a normal ticket option 3 means you're pleading not guilty, and you have to go to the courts to set a trial date. If you chose to plead guilty and pay the fine (option one on every ticket I've ever seen), then you just send the amount you owe in, or do it online with a credit card. You don't go to court or anything.
3) Read the forum. I'm in the process of dealing with a red light ticket myself, there's lots of info here, you just have to look around a bit. I would, however, advise that you don't use the excuse that you couldn't see the light due to the bus blocking you. You *technically* should of slowed down and proceeded with caution, if you could not see the lights. (Not trying to judge you, just pointing out that the courts probably won't be sympathetic to you).
Red light camera tickets are difficult to beat (from what I've read and heard). Not impossible though, I do have one buddy that beat his, but there were extenuating circumstances (weather).
Thanks! The options on this one seem different:
Option 1: Plead not guilty
Option 2: Plead guilty
Option 3: Payment out of court
For the third option we can send a cheque or our credit card details. I was confused about whether I also have to appear in court later if I choose option 3.
@nagu - I don't see why you would have to go to court if you pay the fine. They're backlogged enough as it is. But if you want a concrete answer just call the court up. This is correct. It's an absolute liability offence, so not being able to see the colour of the light isn't a valid defence. I'm surprised they even accepted weather as a defence, as that should also be irrelevant for an absolute liability offence. Defence options are more limited then regular tickets. You pretty much hope for some kind of technical error or seek the reduced fine. I recall one thread on here where some guy was nailed for speeding by a radar gun/cop. He got off because he requested all kinds of technical and calibration info on the radar gun and they couldn't provide it (or something to that effect). Could the same work for a red light camera? They do malfunction from time to time (Saw one that was snapping shots of cars going through green lights, heh). As for when my buddy got off, it was winter, and he went to make a right turn on a red, and said that he tried to stop but slid over the stop bar because of snow (and I guess the picture somewhat supported this). Was bs of course, but apparently the court bought it.
@nagu - I don't see why you would have to go to court if you pay the fine. They're backlogged enough as it is. But if you want a concrete answer just call the court up.
Stanton wrote:
manwithaplan wrote:
I would, however, advise that you don't use the excuse that you couldn't see the light due to the bus blocking you. You *technically* should of slowed down and proceeded with caution, if you could not see the lights. (Not trying to judge you, just pointing out that the courts probably won't be sympathetic to you).
Red light camera tickets are difficult to beat (from what I've read and heard). Not impossible though, I do have one buddy that beat his, but there were extenuating circumstances (weather).
This is correct. It's an absolute liability offence, so not being able to see the colour of the light isn't a valid defence. I'm surprised they even accepted weather as a defence, as that should also be irrelevant for an absolute liability offence.
Defence options are more limited then regular tickets. You pretty much hope for some kind of technical error or seek the reduced fine.
I recall one thread on here where some guy was nailed for speeding by a radar gun/cop. He got off because he requested all kinds of technical and calibration info on the radar gun and they couldn't provide it (or something to that effect). Could the same work for a red light camera? They do malfunction from time to time (Saw one that was snapping shots of cars going through green lights, heh).
As for when my buddy got off, it was winter, and he went to make a right turn on a red, and said that he tried to stop but slid over the stop bar because of snow (and I guess the picture somewhat supported this). Was bs of course, but apparently the court bought it.
Actually, that's not correct. His charge was withdrawn. We do not know, and he also does not know, the reason the charge was withdrawn. Charges are withdrawn for all kinds of reasons. The courts have a history of having dealt with that issue (calibration records etc), so withdrawing for that reason, while possible, is very unlikely. FYI - Red Light Camera tickets have the 1 and 3 options "reversed." You do not have to go to court if you pay the fine. The camera snaps a photograph of not only the car, but the colour of the light at the same time. So a quick check by the administrative clerk will show that the light was green, and they will toss it, if the camera malfunctioned as you described.
manwithaplan wrote:
He got off because he requested all kinds of technical and calibration info on the radar gun and they couldn't provide it (or something to that effect).
Actually, that's not correct. His charge was withdrawn. We do not know, and he also does not know, the reason the charge was withdrawn. Charges are withdrawn for all kinds of reasons. The courts have a history of having dealt with that issue (calibration records etc), so withdrawing for that reason, while possible, is very unlikely.
FYI - Red Light Camera tickets have the 1 and 3 options "reversed."
You do not have to go to court if you pay the fine.
The camera snaps a photograph of not only the car, but the colour of the light at the same time. So a quick check by the administrative clerk will show that the light was green, and they will toss it, if the camera malfunctioned as you described.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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