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disobey no left turn sign
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:23 pm 
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hello,
I made a illegal left turn earlier this year, and my court day is in a couple of days. I was going to request a disclosure but got busy with life and never did.
now, what are my options? assuming there is no way I could send it a disclosure request last minute.
my excuses are
1) the sign is really hard to see, it was erected on a pole that is a few meters to the left of the intersection as you can see in the photo. the sign (I am talking about the sign on the pole on other side of the street) is so bad that every time I go back to the site, I see at least one car making the left turn, and even the google map pic showing a car was making a left turn. Is there a regulation on how far the sign can be from intersection?
2) I was new to town, moved from a different province about 1 year ago, new address 2 months ago. so "mistake of fact"?

Please any input would be appreciated and thanks in advance!


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:54 pm 
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JeffCP wrote:
1) the sign is really hard to see, it was erected a few meters to the left of the shoulder as you can see in the photo. the sign is so bad (I am talking about the sign on the pole on other side of the street) that every time I go back to the site, I see at least one car making the left turn, and even the google map pic showing a car was making a left turn.


You're casually ignoring the sign to your right. Consider the other sign a courtesy.

JeffCP wrote:
2) I was new to town, moved from a different province about 1 year ago, new address 2 months ago.


This is not a defense.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:17 am 
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bend wrote:
JeffCP wrote:
1) the sign is really hard to see, it was erected a few meters to the left of the shoulder as you can see in the photo. the sign is so bad (I am talking about the sign on the pole on other side of the street) that every time I go back to the site, I see at least one car making the left turn, and even the google map pic showing a car was making a left turn.


You're casually ignoring the sign to your right. Consider the other sign a courtesy.

JeffCP wrote:
2) I was new to town, moved from a different province about 1 year ago, new address 2 months ago.


This is not a defense.


thanks for your reply! I did overlook the sign on the right, but it was at night and there were cars parked on the right of the street, so hard to see. but what was the reason for having two signs in the first place? can it argued that people should do totally ok with only one sign? then why the waste of money? apologies if not getting on the points, first time fighting a ticket, trying to get a brain storm.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 1:24 am 
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JeffCP wrote:
but what was the reason for having two signs in the first place? can it argued that people should do totally ok with only one sign? then why the waste of money? apologies if not getting on the points, first time fighting a ticket, trying to get a brain storm.


Signs have regulations. It's to insure that signs are placed with consistency and they're there when you look for them.

In the case of No Left Turns in problem areas, it's not uncommon for municipalities to put up multiple signs. One sign will usually be in regulation and they'll add others that may not be. In your case, it's so they can charge you and that the sign is up to snuff. For everyone else that doesn't get charged, it's so they get the point before they cause an accident to the rest of the unsuspecting driving population and stop a potential traffic jam.

If it's you're opinion that extra signs are a waste of money, that's something to take up with your local government. It's not a defense that you were warned too many times at tax payer expense.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:25 am 
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bend wrote:
JeffCP wrote:
but what was the reason for having two signs in the first place? can it argued that people should do totally ok with only one sign? then why the waste of money? apologies if not getting on the points, first time fighting a ticket, trying to get a brain storm.


Signs have regulations. It's to insure that signs are placed with consistency and they're there when you look for them.

In the case of No Left Turns in problem areas, it's not uncommon for municipalities to put up multiple signs. One sign will usually be in regulation and they'll add others that may not be. In your case, it's so they can charge you and that the sign is up to snuff. For everyone else that doesn't get charged, it's so they get the point before they cause an accident to the rest of the unsuspecting driving population and stop a potential traffic jam.

If it's you're opinion that extra signs are a waste of money, that's something to take up with your local government. It's not a defense that you were warned too many times at tax payer expense.


This is very helpful, I think I am going plea guilty at the court.
Is there still possibility for no demerits fine only if my reasoning is compelling?


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:51 am 
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JeffCP wrote:
This is very helpful, I think I am going plea guilty at the court.
Is there still possibility for no demerits fine only if my reasoning is compelling?


Talk to the prosecutor before your trial, there is a good chance that they will be willing to let you plead guilty to a lessor charge or at least offer you a reduced fine. If your driving record is good I wouldn't worry too much about the points. You can get up to 8 points before your licence is at risk of being suspended and insurance companies don't track them, they use their own separate rating system to determine how much of an increase a particular ticket will cause. A disobey sign ticket is considered minor by most insurance companies so you are looking at either no rate increase or maybe a small increase depending on your insurance policy as long as you haven't had any other tickets in the last 3 years.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:22 am 
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daggx wrote:
JeffCP wrote:
This is very helpful, I think I am going plea guilty at the court.
Is there still possibility for no demerits fine only if my reasoning is compelling?


Talk to the prosecutor before your trial, there is a good chance that they will be willing to let you plead guilty to a lessor charge or at least offer you a reduced fine. If your driving record is good I wouldn't worry too much about the points. You can get up to 8 points before your licence is at risk of being suspended and insurance companies don't track them, they use their own separate rating system to determine how much of an increase a particular ticket will cause. A disobey sign ticket is considered minor by most insurance companies so you are looking at either no rate increase or maybe a small increase depending on your insurance policy as long as you haven't had any other tickets in the last 3 years.


Thanks, but my trial is on Wednesday, should I call them to ask for a meeting with prosecutor?


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:56 am 
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At this point just wait until the day. The prosecutor will have a stream of people waiting to see them. There will be many deals being made as there is no way they could run trails for the number of people on the docket.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
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I agree with argyll, there is no point in booking an early resolution meeting at this point. Just show up a few minutes early on your court date and meet with the prosecutor before court starts. As he said, you won't be the only one, lots of people will be there looking to cut last minute deals.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:27 am 
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argyll wrote:
At this point just wait until the day. The prosecutor will have a stream of people waiting to see them. There will be many deals being made as there is no way they could run trails for the number of people on the docket.

thanks! appreciated your help.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:28 am 
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daggx wrote:
I agree with argyll, there is no point in booking an early resolution meeting at this point. Just show up a few minutes early on your court date and meet with the prosecutor before court starts. As he said, you won't be the only one, lots of people will be there looking to cut last minute deals.

thank you, will update after the trial today.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:05 pm
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Thanks for everyone's help, talked to prosecutor before trial, given a charge for improper use of signalling device as anyone else who talked to her. no demerits, fine reduced to $60 + tax/fee.
not too bad of a outcome for a no defense, :)


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:01 pm 
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Not bad at all and thanks for updating us.

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Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:09 am
Posts: 220
Call it a win. That was pretty much the best you were going to do.


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Re: disobey no left turn sign
PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:36 am 
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Thanks for the update, it looks like things worked out pretty well.


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