G2 Drive BAC Above Zero

Antec
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:26 am

G2 Drive BAC Above Zero

by: Antec on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:36 am

Hello,

I wasn't quiet sure where this should go, so I am going to try here.

I am 25 years old, and I have had my G2 license since March 2010. I haven't upgraded to my full G only out of not really having the time nor cash to do it as of yet. In early February of this year I was pulled over by an OPP at a RIDE program and blew a 0.031 BAC. I was unaware at the time that I was supposed to have a BAC of zero, as the MTO doesn't send mail out when they make changes to the "law". Apparently this law came into effect on August 1st, 2010 along with the Novice Driver Escalating Sanctions.

But anyways, the officer was about to let me go until he noticed that I had a G2 license and he had already radioed it in. I received the ticket and spoke with a JP and pled guilty to it (as I was...ignorance isn't an excuse). I have no problem facing up to the offense or paying the fine. The problem that I have is the 30-day suspension that I am facing. I check the mail everyday and I hold my breath. I cannot afford to have my license suspend, let alone pay $150 to get it back. I have a newborn and my wife does not drive, if we lived in a city that would be one thing, but currently where we live we have to drive 40mins up the highway to buy our food and whatnot.

Basically, is there anyone that I can speak to about avoiding this suspension, and perhaps jumping on getting my G done instead? I even waited 3 hours after my last drink (which wasn't many, believe it or not), just to make sure I didn't blow over a 0.05 if I was stopped.

I just do not think it is fair that I should loose my license because I have a 2 next to the G. I am over 19, plus I have had my G2 for a long enough period to have written my G2 exit test twice!


Stanton
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:49 pm
Location: Ontario

by: Stanton on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:12 am

I don't know any way you can avoid the suspension, it's mandated by law and not at the discretion of the Courts.

And just FYI, the G2 has always had a zero BAC requirement since day 1. Its not a new law by any stretch.


Antec
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:26 am

by: Antec on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:06 pm

I took a look at it again and it seems to state "Any combination of repeat violations of G1/G2/M1/M2 restrictions;".
Escalating sanctions for novice drivers would apply if any of the following occurrences have taken place within a 5-year period:

Any combination of repeat violations of G1/G2/M1/M2 restrictions;
Convictions for individual HTA offences carrying four or more demerit points; or,
Court ordered licence suspensions for HTA convictions that would have otherwise resulted in four or more demerit points.
http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... 10.2.shtml

So does this mean that since this is my first violation that my license would not be suspended? This whole thing is confusing. One site says yes, others say no.


Stanton
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:49 pm
Location: Ontario

by: Stanton on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:48 pm

Not all novice violations are treated the same. Some don't result in automatic suspensions like the no alcohol requirement.

The zero BAC suspension is covered under section 44.1 of the HTA and section 9 of the driver's licence regulation (O Reg 340/94).

The HTA states the following:
Condition on licence that blood alcohol concentration level be zero
Novice drivers
44.1 (1) It is a condition of the driver’s licence of every novice driver that his or her blood alcohol concentration level be zero while he or she is driving a motor vehicle on a highway. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Young drivers
(2) It is a condition of the driver’s licence of every young driver that his or her blood alcohol concentration level be zero while he or she is driving a motor vehicle on a highway. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Penalty, novice drivers
(3) Every novice driver who contravenes the condition of his or her driver’s licence imposed under subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Same
(4) If a novice driver is convicted of an offence under subsection (3), the Registrar may suspend, cancel or change his or her driver’s licence in accordance with the regulations. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
Same, young drivers
(5) Every young driver who contravenes the condition of his or her driver’s licence imposed under subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500 and his or her driver’s licence is thereupon suspended for 30 days. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
So in short, if you have a graduated licence or you're under 22, you must have a zero BAC. It says novice drivers (i.e. G1, G2) may be suspended as per regulation, and young drivers automatically suspended for 30 days.

So for novice drivers you read the regulation which states the following:
9. (1) The Registrar shall, after giving notice, suspend or cancel the driver’s licence of a novice driver as provided in subsection (2) in the following circumstance:
1. The novice driver is convicted of any of the offences described in subsection (3). O. Reg. 205/10, s. 6.
(2) Subject to subsections (4) and 10 (5), the Registrar shall,
(a) upon a novice driver’s first conviction for any of the offences, suspend the driver’s licence of the person for 30 days;
(b) upon a novice driver’s second conviction for any of the offences, suspend the driver’s licence of the person for 90 days; and
(c) upon a novice driver’s third conviction for any of the offences, cancel the driver’s licence of the person. O. Reg. 205/10, s. 6.
(3) Subsection (1) applies with respect to any of the following offences:
1. An offence under subsection 44.1 (3) of the Act.
2. A contravention of any of the conditions specified in section 5, 6 or 7 of this Regulation.
3. An offence under the Act set out in Column 1 of the Table to the Demerit Point Regulation for which the number of demerit points set out opposite thereto in Column 2 is four or more, regardless of whether or not demerit points have been recorded.
4. An offence under subsection 216 (3) of the Act. O. Reg. 205/10, s. 6.
So the regulation says the registrar shall (which means must) suspend for 30 days the licence of anyone convicted of a contravention of section 44.1 (3) of the HTA, which is the zero BAC requirement.

So probably not what you want to hear, but I don't see any way around the 30 day suspension once you've been convicted.


Antec
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:26 am

by: Antec on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:57 pm

IT is very confusing, because it states two different conditions. One for Novice drivers, and then novice "young driver". What makes a "young driver"? I am 25 going on 26 in July. Am I a young driver?

Because:
(5) Every young driver who contravenes the condition of his or her driver’s licence imposed under subsection (2) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500 and his or her driver’s licence is thereupon suspended for 30 days. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.
But yet for Novice Drivers it says "MAY":
(4) If a novice driver is convicted of an offence under subsection (3), the Registrar may suspend, cancel or change his or her driver’s licence in accordance with the regulations. 2009, c. 5, s. 14.


Stanton
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:49 pm
Location: Ontario

by: Stanton on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:04 pm

Young drivers are people under 22 with a full licence. Novice drivers are persons of any age with a graduated licence.

And while it says the registrar may suspend, it also says in accordance with the regulation. In other words, it could be suspended, and the registrar is to do what the regulation says. And the regulation says "shall" suspend for BAC violations, which means there's no discretion.

Edit: And if you think about it, it wouldn't make much sense that there would be discretion for a novice driver when there isn't for a fully licenced young driver.


Antec
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:26 am

by: Antec on
Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:36 pm

Ok, let's say for "argument's sake", that there is a discretion. Any idea who I could contact to plead my case to at the MTO. Or would it be any office?


User avatar
hwybear
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2933
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!

Moderator

by: hwybear on
Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:32 pm

antic wrote:I was unaware at the time that I was supposed to have a BAC of zero, as the MTO doesn't send mail out when they make changes to the "law". Apparently this law came into effect on August 1st, 2010 along with the Novice Driver Escalating Sanctions
Stanton wrote:I don't know any way you can avoid the suspension, it's mandated by law and not at the discretion of the Courts.

And just FYI, the G2 has always had a zero BAC requirement since day 1. Its not a new law by any stretch.
as Staton mentions the G2 conditions, which is the same for all the novice drivers, which are the G1/G2/M1/M2 licence holders = have been out since the start of those licences way back in the 1990's
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


daggx
Sr. Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 394
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am

Posting Awards

by: daggx on
Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:29 pm

Antec wrote:Ok, let's say for "argument's sake", that there is a discretion. Any idea who I could contact to plead my case to at the MTO. Or would it be any office?
Unfortunately there is nobody to call at MTO because nobody there has the power to rescind the suspension. The way to ask for leniency would have been to plead not guilty to the charge and then work out a plea deal with the prosecutor. Once you paid the ticket an automatic bureaucratic process kicked in that nobody has the power to stop.


perks
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:41 pm

by: perks on
Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:39 pm

i got same ticket, but i was pulled over for no reason, just because he saw ME. pulled me over grabbed me out of the car and arrested me, made me blow and i blew a A. got a novice driver above zero B.A.C and i got 110 fine and 3 day licence suspended. i dont understand why he gave you 30.


Stanton
High Authority
High Authority
Posts: 2111
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:49 pm
Location: Ontario

by: Stanton on
Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:47 pm

The 30 day suspension is in addition to the roadside suspension. If you're found guilty, your licence is suspended for another 30 days.


Post Reply
  • Similar Topics

Return to “Other Ontario Provincial Acts Related to Traffic”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest