I understand that when G2 driver under influence is stopped, it carries an automatic 3-day licence suspension and a further 30-day if pleaded guilty or convicted. a) how long does the following stay on your drivers record? 1) 3-day suspension 2) 30-day suspension b) Demerit points associated with any? c) Lets say one gets the 3-day suspension and the case is subsequently dropped. I am guessing it will be obvious for the insurance company that the 3-day suspension was alcohol related and will affect insurance premium accordingly. Any views on this??
I understand that when G2 driver under influence is stopped, it carries an automatic 3-day licence suspension and a further 30-day if pleaded guilty or convicted.
a) how long does the following stay on your drivers record?
1) 3-day suspension
2) 30-day suspension
b) Demerit points associated with any?
c) Lets say one gets the 3-day suspension and the case is subsequently dropped. I am guessing it will be obvious for the insurance company that the 3-day suspension was alcohol related and will affect insurance premium accordingly. Any views on this??
3, 7, and 30 day suspensions are for drivers that blow a warn (between 50 and 80 mgs of alcohol) so they are not technically "under the influence". Well, maybe they are, depending on your definition, but what I mean is that they are not necessarily impaired. The first time a driver gets into this situation they get a 3 day suspension. The second time (if it is within 5 years) is 7 days. The third time (if it is within 5 years of the second) is a 30 day suspension. There is no "case" associated with a suspension, so there is nothing to be dropped. I don't think insurance companies are looking at these suspensions, precisely for this reason, because there is no case, nothing has been proven in court and there is no right to appeal a suspension. The suspensions do stay on your record forever, but the time line resets after five years, as I indicated above. Does that answer all your questions?
3, 7, and 30 day suspensions are for drivers that blow a warn (between 50 and 80 mgs of alcohol) so they are not technically "under the influence". Well, maybe they are, depending on your definition, but what I mean is that they are not necessarily impaired.
The first time a driver gets into this situation they get a 3 day suspension. The second time (if it is within 5 years) is 7 days. The third time (if it is within 5 years of the second) is a 30 day suspension.
There is no "case" associated with a suspension, so there is nothing to be dropped. I don't think insurance companies are looking at these suspensions, precisely for this reason, because there is no case, nothing has been proven in court and there is no right to appeal a suspension.
The suspensions do stay on your record forever, but the time line resets after five years, as I indicated above.
I infer an insurance company can query your record for the past 5 years. Similar to minor speeding tickets stay on your record for 3 yrs, i would have thought it would be the same for a suspension. What I dont understand (and cannot find the answer anywhere) is that when an insurance company query a driver's record, they will see that 3 day suspension, which can only be alcohol related. Automatically this will drive the insurance premium to the roof. Am I wrong in this assumption? Similarly if I were to look for an insurance for a new car, I would be forced for reveal a license suspension (even if the case was eventually dropped), would you agree?
I infer an insurance company can query your record for the past 5 years.
Similar to minor speeding tickets stay on your record for 3 yrs, i would have thought it would be the same for a suspension.
What I dont understand (and cannot find the answer anywhere) is that when an insurance company query a driver's record, they will see that 3 day suspension, which can only be alcohol related. Automatically this will drive the insurance premium to the roof. Am I wrong in this assumption?
Similarly if I were to look for an insurance for a new car, I would be forced for reveal a license suspension (even if the case was eventually dropped), would you agree?
Yes, the suspension is on your record, which is queryable by insurance companies and yes, you I guess you would have to disclose that your licence has been suspended on a new application for insurance. I seem to recall though, when the legislation came out, that there was talk that insurance companies would not be able to use this against you since nothing has been proven. Perhaps I'm wrong on that.
Yes, the suspension is on your record, which is queryable by insurance companies and yes, you I guess you would have to disclose that your licence has been suspended on a new application for insurance.
I seem to recall though, when the legislation came out, that there was talk that insurance companies would not be able to use this against you since nothing has been proven. Perhaps I'm wrong on that.
I recall that..where it is an ADLS (Administrative Drivers Licence Suspension) that the insurance can not use it , but where it is MTO/Court administered (demerit points, unpaid fines, suspension) it can be used. We will have to find the link somewhere for that.
Simon Borys wrote:
I seem to recall though, when the legislation came out, that there was talk that insurance companies would not be able to use this against you since nothing has been proven. Perhaps I'm wrong on that.
I recall that..where it is an ADLS (Administrative Drivers Licence Suspension) that the insurance can not use it , but where it is MTO/Court administered (demerit points, unpaid fines, suspension) it can be used.
We will have to find the link somewhere for that.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Perhaps we should clarify for people that all convictions on your driving record are permanent. They do not get erased. However, demerit points do drop off your record 2 years after the offence date and some people think this is synonymous with the conviction dropping off your record. This is not the case. Also, older convictions do not show up on your licence history when a police officers queries your licence status through PARIS. Again, some people think this is synonymous with your record being clean, but it is not.
Perhaps we should clarify for people that all convictions on your driving record are permanent. They do not get erased. However, demerit points do drop off your record 2 years after the offence date and some people think this is synonymous with the conviction dropping off your record. This is not the case. Also, older convictions do not show up on your licence history when a police officers queries your licence status through PARIS. Again, some people think this is synonymous with your record being clean, but it is not.
We use a different system and can see everything back to when the driver was first licenced.....think the most I have seen is around 60 convictions.
Simon Borys wrote:
Also, older convictions do not show up on your licence history when a police officers queries your licence status through PARIS. Again, some people think this is synonymous with your record being clean, but it is not.
We use a different system and can see everything back to when the driver was first licenced.....think the most I have seen is around 60 convictions.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
The convictions don't drop off the records that police can look at, but they do drop off the driver abstract (and what the insurance companies can look at) after three years, suspensions after five. 60 convictions!? :shock: :shock: :shock:
The convictions don't drop off the records that police can look at, but they do drop off the driver abstract (and what the insurance companies can look at) after three years, suspensions after five.
60 convictions!?
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
60!? That's crazy! Just to clarify for people, most (perhaps all?) municipal police services have access to the 3 year record, OPP and MTO have access to everything.
60!? That's crazy!
Just to clarify for people, most (perhaps all?) municipal police services have access to the 3 year record, OPP and MTO have access to everything.
Interesting you guys seem to agree the 3,7,30 day suspension is administrative and cannot be used by insurance unless it has been administered by the court. On the other side, if I declare this on a new insurance application, then it will automatically increase premium. How would you guys go about this? Tell the insurance company, I have a 3-day license suspension but is administrative only. Any reference to the law or directive/document that states insurance companies cannot use this administrative suspension against a driver? thx
Interesting you guys seem to agree the 3,7,30 day suspension is administrative and cannot be used by insurance unless it has been administered by the court.
On the other side, if I declare this on a new insurance application, then it will automatically increase premium. How would you guys go about this? Tell the insurance company, I have a 3-day license suspension but is administrative only.
Any reference to the law or directive/document that states insurance companies cannot use this administrative suspension against a driver?
ok I found a link http://www.defencelaw.com/drinking-driving-1.html Under: "Administrative driver's licence suspension" The suspension may lead to imposition of an insurance surcharge. In Ontario, if you successfully defend the charge that led to the suspension, provide a certified copy of the information (charging document) to your insurance company. Upon renewal of your policy, the surcharge should be removed.
The suspension may lead to imposition of an insurance surcharge. In Ontario, if you successfully defend the charge that led to the suspension, provide a certified copy of the information (charging document) to your insurance company. Upon renewal of your policy, the surcharge should be removed.
This is referring to the 90 Day ADLS (Administrative Driver's Licence Suspension) that you get when you are charged with Over 80 or Refuse, not the 3/7/30 day suspensions.
This is referring to the 90 Day ADLS (Administrative Driver's Licence Suspension) that you get when you are charged with Over 80 or Refuse, not the 3/7/30 day suspensions.
ah ha ... just found the answer ADLS (3, 7, 30 and 90day) are not to be used against the person to raise the insurance rates. All other suspensions will be used http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/English/pubs/ ... -04_06.asp And the MTO will not charge a reinstatement fee http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... tate.shtml
ah ha ... just found the answer
ADLS (3, 7, 30 and 90day) are not to be used against the person to raise the insurance rates.
all this speculation....Lets look at it simply. You are an insurance company and you find out guy has suspension due to alcohol. Do you not think that they will assess that person as a higher risk than someone who has not? ADLS or not if your insurance company finds out about it they will raise your premiums i suspect. At least that is what my insurance company told me... OPS Oh and i think that a 3,7,30 day suspension stays on your record for 5 years
all this speculation....Lets look at it simply.
You are an insurance company and you find out guy has suspension due to alcohol. Do you not think that they will assess that person as a higher risk than someone who has not?
ADLS or not if your insurance company finds out about it they will raise your premiums i suspect.
At least that is what my insurance company told me...
OPS
Oh and i think that a 3,7,30 day suspension stays on your record for 5 years
From the link "... Reasons can include non-renewal or expiry of a drivers licence due to a consumers oversight, temporary medical conditions, unpaid parking tickets, outstanding support payments to the Family Responsibility Office or outstanding payment to the Motor Vehicle Accident Claims Fund." What if I say I got the suspension because of unpaid parking tickets??
From the link
"... Reasons can include non-renewal or expiry of a drivers licence due to a consumers oversight, temporary medical conditions, unpaid parking tickets, outstanding support payments to the Family Responsibility Office or outstanding payment to the Motor Vehicle Accident Claims Fund."
What if I say I got the suspension because of unpaid parking tickets??
You have just committed insurance fraud and would be dropped and blacklisted... You think premiums for a suspended licence would be bad....wait to see them after. lying to them...Plus your driving record will show that you were suspended for alcohol. Plus in Ontario your DL is not ever suspended for parking tickets, They just do not let you renew your plate until they are paid. OPS
sroghen wrote:
From the link
"... Reasons can include non-renewal or expiry of a drivers licence due to a consumers oversight, temporary medical conditions, unpaid parking tickets, outstanding support payments to the Family Responsibility Office or outstanding payment to the Motor Vehicle Accident Claims Fund."
What if I say I got the suspension because of unpaid parking tickets??
You have just committed insurance fraud and would be dropped and blacklisted...
You think premiums for a suspended licence would be bad....wait to see them after. lying to them...Plus your driving record will show that you were suspended for alcohol.
Plus in Ontario your DL is not ever suspended for parking tickets, They just do not let you renew your plate until they are paid.
As OPS Copper is indicating... never, ever, lie to the insurance company. They will find out, hopefully before anything happens. If you were to, say, get in a collision, the first thing they do is dig through your records to see if you are/were suspended or there's any reason to deny your claim. (And they will dig deeper than you'd ever imagined.) When they find out that you lied to them, they will refuse payment. If you were at fault, the other driver's insurance company (and the other driver, possibly) will sue you personally, since your insurance company won't cover you. And, you can probably expect the police to be banging on your door. It seems like a simple, nonchalant excuse for why you were suspended, but the insurance companies sure don't view it that way. Be careful.
sroghen wrote:
What if I say I got the suspension because of unpaid parking tickets??
As OPS Copper is indicating... never, ever, lie to the insurance company. They will find out, hopefully before anything happens. If you were to, say, get in a collision, the first thing they do is dig through your records to see if you are/were suspended or there's any reason to deny your claim. (And they will dig deeper than you'd ever imagined.)
When they find out that you lied to them, they will refuse payment. If you were at fault, the other driver's insurance company (and the other driver, possibly) will sue you personally, since your insurance company won't cover you. And, you can probably expect the police to be banging on your door.
It seems like a simple, nonchalant excuse for why you were suspended, but the insurance companies sure don't view it that way. Be careful.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
hey all, sorry for bringing back an older thread but i believe i can shed some light on this topic. recently (unfortunately) i was convicted of this same offense, i got the 3 day suspension and on the ticket it clearly states that i was being charged under the highway traffic act for having a G2 and driving with a BAC above 0. i have talked with my insurace company (RBC) and as of next month my premium will be increased accordingly, and since i am 20 with only a G2 i will be classified as "high risk". hope this helps
hey all, sorry for bringing back an older thread but i believe i can shed some light on this topic.
recently (unfortunately) i was convicted of this same offense, i got the 3 day suspension and on the ticket it clearly states that i was being charged under the highway traffic act for having a G2 and driving with a BAC above 0. i have talked with my insurace company (RBC) and as of next month my premium will be increased accordingly, and since i am 20 with only a G2 i will be classified as "high risk".
What's interesting about this is that any Administrative Lapse or Suspension cannot be used in calculating your premium as per FSCO.. This includes suspensions for STUNT DRIVING and other offences if they are successfully argued in court. For example: if someone was pulled over for an alleged stunt driving offense, and then went to court and was found not guilty/charges withdrawn etc. the insurance company cannot fairly assess that person as a higher risk! What if the officer was mistaken, what if the equipment was faulty etc. etc. The insurance company still sees the suspension as "Administrative - Stunt Driving" or whatever the case may be, but as long as the agents are doing their job and not completely retarded, they cannot increase your premium (in fact, the computer system will often let them just click through that screen). So the moral of this story is that they can see your suspension and the reason why it occurred, but if you weren't convicted they do not have the ability to use that against you- it is in fact against their policy. What if you got a warn indication on a faulty breathalizer? You'd still be charged, but it would be totally unfair for that suspension to count against your premiums if it was the machine's fault. The real interesting part of it is that the ministry OUTRIGHT REFUSES to rescind suspensions where this has been the case. There was a recent stunt driving case where the officer failed to test his radar unit and had completely inaccurate testimony regarding the offense, and the crown was forced to withdraw all charges against the accused. When the accused called the MTO office that deals with suspensions they said they would not rescind the suspension because the driver was "guilty in the opinion of the officer" and that the OPP would have to call the MTO in order to have the suspension reversed. The accused decided not to pursue the issue when he learned that insurance companies can't use that suspension in the calculation of his policy, however it is on his record forever. Weird, huh?
What's interesting about this is that any Administrative Lapse or Suspension cannot be used in calculating your premium as per FSCO..
This includes suspensions for STUNT DRIVING and other offences if they are successfully argued in court.
For example: if someone was pulled over for an alleged stunt driving offense, and then went to court and was found not guilty/charges withdrawn etc. the insurance company cannot fairly assess that person as a higher risk! What if the officer was mistaken, what if the equipment was faulty etc. etc.
The insurance company still sees the suspension as "Administrative - Stunt Driving" or whatever the case may be, but as long as the agents are doing their job and not completely retarded, they cannot increase your premium (in fact, the computer system will often let them just click through that screen).
So the moral of this story is that they can see your suspension and the reason why it occurred, but if you weren't convicted they do not have the ability to use that against you- it is in fact against their policy.
What if you got a warn indication on a faulty breathalizer? You'd still be charged, but it would be totally unfair for that suspension to count against your premiums if it was the machine's fault.
The real interesting part of it is that the ministry OUTRIGHT REFUSES to rescind suspensions where this has been the case. There was a recent stunt driving case where the officer failed to test his radar unit and had completely inaccurate testimony regarding the offense, and the crown was forced to withdraw all charges against the accused. When the accused called the MTO office that deals with suspensions they said they would not rescind the suspension because the driver was "guilty in the opinion of the officer" and that the OPP would have to call the MTO in order to have the suspension reversed.
The accused decided not to pursue the issue when he learned that insurance companies can't use that suspension in the calculation of his policy, however it is on his record forever.
Weird, huh?
SLYK
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"Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny." - Edmund Burke"
"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" - MLK Jr.
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